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I think their point about VPN is that a third party provider then could be compelled to disclose information about you. Since all your traffic routed through a

I think their point about VPN is that a third party provider then could be compelled to disclose information about you. Since all your traffic routed through a single provider before hitting the remote proxy, there is now the potential for a single point of collection. When using Tor only, traffic leaving your computer is encrypted before hitting the first node which mitigates this threat. If the use of Tor is illegal for you, a VPN makes sense to hide its use-- but like you said, it is only hidden from the ISP. The VPN provider can still see that you are using it. In practice, how Tor is used should depend on the threat a person is trying to defend against.

im3w1l 5y ago
> third party provider then could be compelled to disclose information about you. What data exactly are you worried they would disclose? Everything they see would be encrypted, no?
- batch12 5y ago
  I am not worried. I was simply explaining the argument as I understood it.
zionic 5y ago
VPN hardens against your local ISP knowing when you are and are not using Tor, which is important meta data and has been used to identify people in the past.
- batch12 5y ago
  True, but the ISP knows you are using VPN and the VPN provider knows you are using Tor. Thats why I made the argument that the stategy of defense depends on the use case.
jl2718 5y ago
Nonsense or terrible design. The VPN shouldn’t be able to read anything sent to a tor node. There are easy ways to detect a key exchange intercept with a trusted certificate authority, and probably also with no trusted authority.
- batch12 5y ago
  Maybe the thought is that there is no additional security is gained by using the VPN in this use case unless your threat model includes your ISP knowing you are using Tor. You're moving the trusted partner from your ISP to the VPN provider. Again, it comes down to an assessment of risk based on your threats.

im3w1l 5y ago

> third party provider then could be compelled to disclose information about you. What data exactly are you worried they would disclose? Everything they see would be encrypted, no?

batch12 5y ago
I am not worried. I was simply explaining the argument as I understood it.

zionic 5y ago

VPN hardens against your local ISP knowing when you are and are not using Tor, which is important meta data and has been used to identify people in the past.

batch12 5y ago
True, but the ISP knows you are using VPN and the VPN provider knows you are using Tor. Thats why I made the argument that the stategy of defense depends on the use case.

jl2718 5y ago

Nonsense or terrible design. The VPN shouldn’t be able to read anything sent to a tor node. There are easy ways to detect a key exchange intercept with a trusted certificate authority, and probably also with no trusted authority.

batch12 5y ago
Maybe the thought is that there is no additional security is gained by using the VPN in this use case unless your threat model includes your ISP knowing you are using Tor. You're moving the trusted partner from your ISP to the VPN provider. Again, it comes down to an assessment of risk based on your threats.