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Back in the 19th century there was no birth control, and women were in a constant cycle of pregnancy and breastfeeding once married until they became infertile,

by novok 6y ago

Back in the 19th century there was no birth control, and women were in a constant cycle of pregnancy and breastfeeding once married until they became infertile, also puberty started significantly later. To have a society of single family children, they had to figure out how to stop having children, which was figuring out how to have way less sex and thus a bunch of sexually frustrated people.

bryanrasmussen 6y ago
all those people without hands, but plenty of animals, had to let it out somewhere I guess.
- selestify 6y ago
  Right, since we all have hands, that's why there's no market for fleshlights.
  - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
    I don't think we can make a direct connection between bestiality and the lack of access to sex with members of the opposite sex, as it seems more likely that would lead to increase in masturbation. That said it is true there is a market for fleshlights despite people having hands, but I don't think we can say that the market existing proves the bestiality conjecture. I think to argue the bestiality conjecture you need to directly argue the lack of access to human sexual contact increases bestiality not imply it. I'm not saying it isn't so. Just that one can't blithely claim because A then C. on edit: should also note that the sex toys market is maybe primarily based on the marketing that these are better than masturbation. A very easy line can be drawn from people masturbating to buying sex toys based on a lot of marketing for them. But - I am unfamiliar with a material available at the time advocating use of farm animals as better than masturbation. Actually I think Pantagruel and Gargantua probably had some lines about it, but then it had lines about everything. on second edit: Gargantua and Pantagruel, preoccupied.
emptysongglass 6y ago
I wonder how much more prevalent anal sex was as a method of birth control then.
bobcostas55 6y ago
>Back in the 19th century there was no birth control, and women were in a constant cycle of pregnancy and breastfeeding This is really not the case, in the western world fertility dropped steadily through the 19th century. People had some control over the reproductive process even without the pill/latex condoms. By the year 1900, TFR was already under 3 in France.
einpoklum 5y ago
You mean, no chemical birth control. Different cultures employed various mechanisms of birth control - some of which the article describes. Japan during much of the Tokugawa period (after 1700) is an example of that kind of self-stabilizing population. They used: * Abortion * On-birth infanticide (don't be quick to judge) * Delayed marriage (which also means more years of celibacy before marriage I guess?) https://international.uiowa.edu/sites/international.uiowa.edu/files/file_uploads/japan_in_tokugawa_period_and_modernity.pdf https://international.uiowa.edu/sites/international.uiowa.ed... and AFAICT this was not government-enforced or even strongly-government-encouraged.
- whythre 5y ago
  > On-birth infanticide (don't be quick to judge) Why the hell not? That’s not a particularly enlightened solution.
  - einpoklum 5y ago
    It's complicated. Two points: * If you keep your baby, you are nearly-guaranteeing hunger of your family or your village in 10 years or so. And people in your community would hold a grudge against you and your child for it, from day one. * The cultural norm regarding when life is sacred was different. Many people in the US believe in-womb abortion is not particularly enlightened either.

by novok 6y ago

bryanrasmussen 6y ago

all those people without hands, but plenty of animals, had to let it out somewhere I guess.

selestify 6y ago
Right, since we all have hands, that's why there's no market for fleshlights.
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago
  I don't think we can make a direct connection between bestiality and the lack of access to sex with members of the opposite sex, as it seems more likely that would lead to increase in masturbation. That said it is true there is a market for fleshlights despite people having hands, but I don't think we can say that the market existing proves the bestiality conjecture. I think to argue the bestiality conjecture you need to directly argue the lack of access to human sexual contact increases bestiality not imply it. I'm not saying it isn't so. Just that one can't blithely claim because A then C. on edit: should also note that the sex toys market is maybe primarily based on the marketing that these are better than masturbation. A very easy line can be drawn from people masturbating to buying sex toys based on a lot of marketing for them. But - I am unfamiliar with a material available at the time advocating use of farm animals as better than masturbation. Actually I think Pantagruel and Gargantua probably had some lines about it, but then it had lines about everything. on second edit: Gargantua and Pantagruel, preoccupied.

emptysongglass 6y ago

I wonder how much more prevalent anal sex was as a method of birth control then.

bobcostas55 6y ago

>Back in the 19th century there was no birth control, and women were in a constant cycle of pregnancy and breastfeeding This is really not the case, in the western world fertility dropped steadily through the 19th century. People had some control over the reproductive process even without the pill/latex condoms. By the year 1900, TFR was already under 3 in France.

einpoklum 5y ago

You mean, no chemical birth control. Different cultures employed various mechanisms of birth control - some of which the article describes. Japan during much of the Tokugawa period (after 1700) is an example of that kind of self-stabilizing population. They used: * Abortion * On-birth infanticide (don't be quick to judge) * Delayed marriage (which also means more years of celibacy before marriage I guess?) https://international.uiowa.edu/sites/international.uiowa.edu/files/file_uploads/japan_in_tokugawa_period_and_modernity.pdf https://international.uiowa.edu/sites/international.uiowa.ed... and AFAICT this was not government-enforced or even strongly-government-encouraged.

whythre 5y ago
> On-birth infanticide (don't be quick to judge) Why the hell not? That’s not a particularly enlightened solution.
- einpoklum 5y ago
  It's complicated. Two points: * If you keep your baby, you are nearly-guaranteeing hunger of your family or your village in 10 years or so. And people in your community would hold a grudge against you and your child for it, from day one. * The cultural norm regarding when life is sacred was different. Many people in the US believe in-womb abortion is not particularly enlightened either.