5 ms·

I'd argue it's reasonable for core concepts to be taught online, but things like etiquette, social interaction, etc. slbe taught in person. For instance this al

I'd argue it's reasonable for core concepts to be taught online, but things like etiquette, social interaction, etc. slbe taught in person. For instance this allows kids sitting next to each other to learn different levels of math according to their ability, and then go tag with their buddies.

refurb 5y ago
Or teach core concepts in person and the etiquette and social interaction happen at the same time?
fiachamp 5y ago
Long game is a few superstar teachers teach kids online and their parents and neighbors / community teach them social etiquette
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- mythrwy 5y ago
  There's a lot to be desired in schools (In the US at least and I assume Canada) but one thing schools do do is bring people from many different backgrounds together for long periods of time. That in and of itself is educational for the world students will eventually enter. It creates some level of shared experience and social cohesion and underlying social reality. It's not done very well admittedly with a lot of time wasting and poor education and lowest denominator and propaganda flavor of the decade, but the principal still applies. The thing I'm afraid of with parent and neighbors doing the socializing exclusively is reality bubbles and a fracturing of shared culture.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    Reality bubbles are very much here already. For example, there was a fun study showing that Ivy League students who graduated from a public high school had markedly lower opinions of the ability of an average person than did Ivy League students who graduated from a private high school.
  - voisin 5y ago
    > one thing schools do do is bring people from many different backgrounds together for long periods of time. As our communities become less diverse, our schools follow. At least in Canada from my experience having lived all over the place. For example, a White suburb leads to white schools, and the house value of the suburb is always roughly the same so the socioeconomic status of the students is pretty close. There’s no bussing kids from different areas around to achieve diversity targets.
- watwut 5y ago
  Teachers dont scale.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    One teacher broadcasting to thousands does scale. The best course material being taught to all does scale. Teachers assistants working with small 5-6 person groups scales better than 1 to 30.
    - murkle 5y ago
      I would argue that "broadcasting" is lecturing not teaching though so the original point about not scaling stands
      - ipaddr 5y ago
        My teachers stood up and explained a topic. We read further, did homework and were marked on tests and projects. There may be a period after the lecture where we could try to get help. Perhaps going after class might get you extra help but most teachers seemed to be involved in coaching after class. Where does teaching come in? The lecture or the help after?
        watwut 5y ago
        We had much more back and forth, discussion and such. And teacher would know you personally somewhat and would communicate with you personally when ypi had trouble. The class was giving feedback to teachers, verbal and non verbal.
        ipaddr 5y ago
        The verbal feedback needed because teachers had to wing it like a standup comedian wouldn't be necessary because each lesson would have been vetted and choosen as the best material. Having to slowdown the entire class because you need help helps you but not a percentage of the class. Going quicker for you hurts a different segment. The answer is personalized education.
tasogare 5y ago
You are assuming that irl and online are remotely (pun intended) the same. From personal experience animating a language workshop, doing it online is awful. Because of delay, sound quality, only one person speaking at the time etc. In the end only the participants already proficient in the language benefits from it, so it is widening inequality. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the same effect occurs for other subjects as well. It seems obvious for instance that kids having access to better computer and networking as well as their own calm place to study will be able to perform better in remote learning. Not to mention adults who can answer their questions. Schools allows those differences to disappear.
watwut 5y ago
My impression from covid online school was that it is strictly inferior to in person school. The more important and core the concept is, the more you want it taught in person. I don't even care about exact practical and psychological reasons for it. I know that I would not picked online school for my kids whenever there is choice. And beyond the cost on kids, the cost on parents, specifically on mothers who took brunt of it is considerable too. In terms of losing jobs and this pushing whole familly into problems, in terms of exhaustion and isolation too.
- toast0 5y ago
  It depends on how it is run, and the students. My child does better in person, at least at this point in life. However, many children did better online than in person I've heard from some that it's easier to avoid distraction from classmates, and they feel more focused. Classroom sized video conferences with elementary school kids are a big mess though. A teleconference operator could go a long way. Having an option to do things online for students where it works better seems good to me. In some ideal world, students could work on some of their curriculm online where it made sense for them, and other parts offline. Kind of hard to coordinate a classroom that way though.
voisin 5y ago
So like post-Covid offices students should be free to work from home some days or go to school for in person social engagement on other days, and unlike Ontario today the decision should not be made once for the entire school year. It should change day be day based on the student. If we accept this concept for offices we should accept it for schools.

refurb 5y ago

Or teach core concepts in person and the etiquette and social interaction happen at the same time?

fiachamp 5y ago

Long game is a few superstar teachers teach kids online and their parents and neighbors / community teach them social etiquette

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mythrwy 5y ago
There's a lot to be desired in schools (In the US at least and I assume Canada) but one thing schools do do is bring people from many different backgrounds together for long periods of time. That in and of itself is educational for the world students will eventually enter. It creates some level of shared experience and social cohesion and underlying social reality. It's not done very well admittedly with a lot of time wasting and poor education and lowest denominator and propaganda flavor of the decade, but the principal still applies. The thing I'm afraid of with parent and neighbors doing the socializing exclusively is reality bubbles and a fracturing of shared culture.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  Reality bubbles are very much here already. For example, there was a fun study showing that Ivy League students who graduated from a public high school had markedly lower opinions of the ability of an average person than did Ivy League students who graduated from a private high school.
- voisin 5y ago
  > one thing schools do do is bring people from many different backgrounds together for long periods of time. As our communities become less diverse, our schools follow. At least in Canada from my experience having lived all over the place. For example, a White suburb leads to white schools, and the house value of the suburb is always roughly the same so the socioeconomic status of the students is pretty close. There’s no bussing kids from different areas around to achieve diversity targets.
watwut 5y ago
Teachers dont scale.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  One teacher broadcasting to thousands does scale. The best course material being taught to all does scale. Teachers assistants working with small 5-6 person groups scales better than 1 to 30.
  - murkle 5y ago
    I would argue that "broadcasting" is lecturing not teaching though so the original point about not scaling stands
    - ipaddr 5y ago
      My teachers stood up and explained a topic. We read further, did homework and were marked on tests and projects. There may be a period after the lecture where we could try to get help. Perhaps going after class might get you extra help but most teachers seemed to be involved in coaching after class. Where does teaching come in? The lecture or the help after?
      - watwut 5y ago
        We had much more back and forth, discussion and such. And teacher would know you personally somewhat and would communicate with you personally when ypi had trouble. The class was giving feedback to teachers, verbal and non verbal.
        ipaddr 5y ago
        The verbal feedback needed because teachers had to wing it like a standup comedian wouldn't be necessary because each lesson would have been vetted and choosen as the best material. Having to slowdown the entire class because you need help helps you but not a percentage of the class. Going quicker for you hurts a different segment. The answer is personalized education.

tasogare 5y ago

You are assuming that irl and online are remotely (pun intended) the same. From personal experience animating a language workshop, doing it online is awful. Because of delay, sound quality, only one person speaking at the time etc. In the end only the participants already proficient in the language benefits from it, so it is widening inequality. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the same effect occurs for other subjects as well. It seems obvious for instance that kids having access to better computer and networking as well as their own calm place to study will be able to perform better in remote learning. Not to mention adults who can answer their questions. Schools allows those differences to disappear.

watwut 5y ago

My impression from covid online school was that it is strictly inferior to in person school. The more important and core the concept is, the more you want it taught in person. I don't even care about exact practical and psychological reasons for it. I know that I would not picked online school for my kids whenever there is choice. And beyond the cost on kids, the cost on parents, specifically on mothers who took brunt of it is considerable too. In terms of losing jobs and this pushing whole familly into problems, in terms of exhaustion and isolation too.

toast0 5y ago
It depends on how it is run, and the students. My child does better in person, at least at this point in life. However, many children did better online than in person I've heard from some that it's easier to avoid distraction from classmates, and they feel more focused. Classroom sized video conferences with elementary school kids are a big mess though. A teleconference operator could go a long way. Having an option to do things online for students where it works better seems good to me. In some ideal world, students could work on some of their curriculm online where it made sense for them, and other parts offline. Kind of hard to coordinate a classroom that way though.

voisin 5y ago

So like post-Covid offices students should be free to work from home some days or go to school for in person social engagement on other days, and unlike Ontario today the decision should not be made once for the entire school year. It should change day be day based on the student. If we accept this concept for offices we should accept it for schools.