4 ms·

Slightly OOT. It is refreshing to see how common an article about piano appears at the front page of HN. I have been struggling with the stereotypes / pre-assum

by kucing 5y ago

Slightly OOT. It is refreshing to see how common an article about piano appears at the front page of HN. I have been struggling with the stereotypes / pre-assumption that most software engineers' hobbies (esp fresh grads) seems to be always around tech / electronics.

esrauch 5y ago
I feel like it's also a stereotype that mathy nerds play piano and violin when they're younger.
ternaryoperator 5y ago
I find that there is a huge cross-over between programming and music. IIRC, someone told me years ago, that the most common non-CS degree among programmers was music. I can't verify it, but my experience does not belie it either.
- golemarms 5y ago
  Most common non-STEM degree maybe. I'm sure there are a lot more EE/ physics/ math grads working as programmers than music grads.
  - dpwm 5y ago
    One of the more surprising combos at university was Physics and Music. That was the degree, and the numbers were similar to those doing Computational Physics.
    - golemarms 5y ago
      Imperial College actually used to offer a BSc Physics and Music Performance course[1] (it was suspended recently). This is notable because dual majors, even between similar/adjacent academic fields, are rare for UK undergraduate degrees. [1] https://www.imperial.ac.uk/study/ug/courses/physics-department/physics-music-bsc/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/study/ug/courses/physics-departme...
- mettamage 5y ago
  I haven't seen that in The Netherlands, where I studied. But I did meet some fellow guitar players during my degree :) Music and programming have a couple of things in common. The most important thing being: the act of creating something. Anyone who's a creator at heart will be interested by many endeavours that allow you to create. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if there's also a disproportionate amount of woodworkers among software engineers (as opposed to among laywers, for example). The thing is, not every programmer is a programmer because he/she wants to create. There are other aspects to programming that might be interesting to some.
  - kucing 5y ago
    Your point about the commonality is "the act of creating something" is really touching. I really value the character to being "brave" to get creative, and also knowing that you can do/make/change things to the way you want / make it better. I can see how it relates to various "creation" activities like cooking, painting, electronics/arduino,film-making, or even open-discussion/forum in general (creating community through participation).
- P_I_Staker 5y ago
  If you don't purely do piano and do synthesizers, and write music with DAWs, there's even more crossover. You "program" drums/synths. That's literally what they call it, even though it's conceptually somewhat different. I got into it only to realize it's very similar to "work".
strogonoff 5y ago
In a somewhat recent A16z podcast episode[0] the CEO of Twilio dropped that more than half of the developers they surveyed played a musical instrument and 3/4 or so “did some sort of artistic thing on the side”. I feel like I’m unlucky since the vast majority of the devs I accidentally cross paths with IRL somehow do not have such interests. [0] https://a16z.com/2021/01/12/rise-of-developers-creative-class-company-innovation-ask-a-developer-book/ https://a16z.com/2021/01/12/rise-of-developers-creative-clas...
- Gehinnn 5y ago
  I have heard the same but also made the same observations. Something seems to be off.
Toutouxc 5y ago
I'm in my mid twenties, and having never touched a piano before, I got a Roland FP-10 two months ago. I'm slowly clawing my way through a music theory book, but I've already learned some tiny pieces of music on the side (like the beginning of Strobe by Deadmau5) and it's stunning how fast one can get from "absolutely clueless" to "hey that sounds like music". It's enchanting and wonderful. Sure, music theory can be annoying there are many weird and semi-arbitrary rules about how things are called and there's lots of historical baggage attached to everything, but as soon as you touch the keys, everything just fades away. Man, you can pour so much emotion into that thing. So if you find yourself (like I often did) thinking about how cool it would be to play the piano, but it's probably hard and it's too late and there's no time and you wouldn't even be a good player... Do it. It's easier than you think and YOU CAN do it.
- adkadskhj 5y ago
  > It's enchanting and wonderful. Sure, music theory can be annoying there are many weird and semi-arbitrary rules about how things are called and there's lots of historical baggage attached to everything I'm in the same boat as you (almost identical, different FP though), but i'm actually fascinated by the music theory. In the way that some games touch the "software engineer" side of my brain (Satisfactory, Factorio) but is tiring, music theory weirdly gives me similar vibes without being tiring. Maybe it will be when i know more, but currently music theory just feels like patterns and patterns and patterns. It's remarkable how much you can learn with a handful of patterns. While you're learning one thing you'll often noticed patterns for another.. it's really interesting to me. I also am a novice guitarist and i find piano much more interesting from the music theory standpoint. The patterns on the guitar are dynamic (based on tuning) and it feels like the guitar makes music theory more difficult. I've enjoyed piano much more for this reason. I agree, piano is good fun to learn at any age. I highly recommend it.
  - ronyeh 5y ago
    But why bother with alternate tunings for the guitar? Just learn the standard EADGBe tuning and all the scale shapes and chords will make sense eventually. Piano is also a stringed instrument, with one common tuning that most of us westerners play in.
throwamon 5y ago
Hmm, I agree that having different interests is cool, but I don't know if I agree that this isn't the confirmation of a stereotype. In fact the subjects here are surprisingly predictable. Music? Jazz, piano, rock. Other hobbies? Woodworking, cooking, gaming, watching anime. Misc knowledge? Physics, animal behavior, Atlas Obscura. Philosophy? Stoicism, existentialism, analytical philosophy, random best-seller self-help gurus. Health? Life extension, gut microbiome, depression, mindfulness, neuroscience, magic mushrooms. I'm not necessarily judging this, there's only so much one can focus on and I also find most of these subjects fascinating, but it's pretty clear a tiny subset of what's out there is what consistently gets to the frontpage.

by kucing 5y ago

esrauch 5y ago

I feel like it's also a stereotype that mathy nerds play piano and violin when they're younger.

ternaryoperator 5y ago

I find that there is a huge cross-over between programming and music. IIRC, someone told me years ago, that the most common non-CS degree among programmers was music. I can't verify it, but my experience does not belie it either.

golemarms 5y ago
Most common non-STEM degree maybe. I'm sure there are a lot more EE/ physics/ math grads working as programmers than music grads.
- dpwm 5y ago
  One of the more surprising combos at university was Physics and Music. That was the degree, and the numbers were similar to those doing Computational Physics.
  - golemarms 5y ago
    Imperial College actually used to offer a BSc Physics and Music Performance course[1] (it was suspended recently). This is notable because dual majors, even between similar/adjacent academic fields, are rare for UK undergraduate degrees. [1] https://www.imperial.ac.uk/study/ug/courses/physics-department/physics-music-bsc/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/study/ug/courses/physics-departme...
mettamage 5y ago
I haven't seen that in The Netherlands, where I studied. But I did meet some fellow guitar players during my degree :) Music and programming have a couple of things in common. The most important thing being: the act of creating something. Anyone who's a creator at heart will be interested by many endeavours that allow you to create. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if there's also a disproportionate amount of woodworkers among software engineers (as opposed to among laywers, for example). The thing is, not every programmer is a programmer because he/she wants to create. There are other aspects to programming that might be interesting to some.
- kucing 5y ago
  Your point about the commonality is "the act of creating something" is really touching. I really value the character to being "brave" to get creative, and also knowing that you can do/make/change things to the way you want / make it better. I can see how it relates to various "creation" activities like cooking, painting, electronics/arduino,film-making, or even open-discussion/forum in general (creating community through participation).
P_I_Staker 5y ago
If you don't purely do piano and do synthesizers, and write music with DAWs, there's even more crossover. You "program" drums/synths. That's literally what they call it, even though it's conceptually somewhat different. I got into it only to realize it's very similar to "work".

strogonoff 5y ago

In a somewhat recent A16z podcast episode[0] the CEO of Twilio dropped that more than half of the developers they surveyed played a musical instrument and 3/4 or so “did some sort of artistic thing on the side”. I feel like I’m unlucky since the vast majority of the devs I accidentally cross paths with IRL somehow do not have such interests. [0] https://a16z.com/2021/01/12/rise-of-developers-creative-class-company-innovation-ask-a-developer-book/ https://a16z.com/2021/01/12/rise-of-developers-creative-clas...

Gehinnn 5y ago
I have heard the same but also made the same observations. Something seems to be off.

Toutouxc 5y ago

I'm in my mid twenties, and having never touched a piano before, I got a Roland FP-10 two months ago. I'm slowly clawing my way through a music theory book, but I've already learned some tiny pieces of music on the side (like the beginning of Strobe by Deadmau5) and it's stunning how fast one can get from "absolutely clueless" to "hey that sounds like music". It's enchanting and wonderful. Sure, music theory can be annoying there are many weird and semi-arbitrary rules about how things are called and there's lots of historical baggage attached to everything, but as soon as you touch the keys, everything just fades away. Man, you can pour so much emotion into that thing. So if you find yourself (like I often did) thinking about how cool it would be to play the piano, but it's probably hard and it's too late and there's no time and you wouldn't even be a good player... Do it. It's easier than you think and YOU CAN do it.

adkadskhj 5y ago
> It's enchanting and wonderful. Sure, music theory can be annoying there are many weird and semi-arbitrary rules about how things are called and there's lots of historical baggage attached to everything I'm in the same boat as you (almost identical, different FP though), but i'm actually fascinated by the music theory. In the way that some games touch the "software engineer" side of my brain (Satisfactory, Factorio) but is tiring, music theory weirdly gives me similar vibes without being tiring. Maybe it will be when i know more, but currently music theory just feels like patterns and patterns and patterns. It's remarkable how much you can learn with a handful of patterns. While you're learning one thing you'll often noticed patterns for another.. it's really interesting to me. I also am a novice guitarist and i find piano much more interesting from the music theory standpoint. The patterns on the guitar are dynamic (based on tuning) and it feels like the guitar makes music theory more difficult. I've enjoyed piano much more for this reason. I agree, piano is good fun to learn at any age. I highly recommend it.
- ronyeh 5y ago
  But why bother with alternate tunings for the guitar? Just learn the standard EADGBe tuning and all the scale shapes and chords will make sense eventually. Piano is also a stringed instrument, with one common tuning that most of us westerners play in.

throwamon 5y ago

Hmm, I agree that having different interests is cool, but I don't know if I agree that this isn't the confirmation of a stereotype. In fact the subjects here are surprisingly predictable. Music? Jazz, piano, rock. Other hobbies? Woodworking, cooking, gaming, watching anime. Misc knowledge? Physics, animal behavior, Atlas Obscura. Philosophy? Stoicism, existentialism, analytical philosophy, random best-seller self-help gurus. Health? Life extension, gut microbiome, depression, mindfulness, neuroscience, magic mushrooms. I'm not necessarily judging this, there's only so much one can focus on and I also find most of these subjects fascinating, but it's pretty clear a tiny subset of what's out there is what consistently gets to the frontpage.