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I find it really fascinating that there are people bothered by Epic’s exclusives and not bothered by how the App Store works. Epic paid developers money to get

I find it really fascinating that there are people bothered by Epic’s exclusives and not bothered by how the App Store works. Epic paid developers money to get them to release games exclusively on the Epic store. Consumers have access to these games on the roughly same computers that can access other PC games. In other words, consumer or publisher freedom was not materially impacted. Epic’s deals with game developers are effectively subsidies, which save developers and/or consumers money. On the other hand, Apple’s App Store policy makes it impossible for developers to access the iOS market without paying Apple’s tax. Every iOS app is an App Store exclusive, and Apple is not paying developers for the privilege. This costs consumers and developers huge amounts of money and limits their freedom. I recognize the inconvenience of installing the Epic store, but comparing the effects of these two controversial policies reveals how benign Epic’s is.

Laforet 5y ago
One certainly can be bothered by both. I can live without sideloading apps but expect some control on the version of app I prefer. Apple's decision to remove the option of backing up apps from the device was the final straw for me to abandon the entire ecosystem and I have not looked back. That said, I really don't think Epic's policy and practice is necessarily benign. Multiple indie developers have reported that Epic is not even going to consider publishing your game unless you agree to some kind of exclusivity first. Has Apple every turned down an app submission because the same software is being offered on Android? In the past I have bought several consoles to play titles exclusive to that platform and I was not bothered about that. For all I know the game may not even get made without the backing of Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo, not to mention they were marketed as "Console X exclusive" from the get go. Once upon a time when EA pulled their games off Steam there was much less controversy as people understand that EA has the right to make any business decision for their first party games. However things are quite different when Epic decides to waltz in at the last minute and scoop games from other store fronts because they can outspend others.
- deleted 5y ago
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- fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago
  >Multiple indie developers have reported that Epic is not even going to consider publishing your game unless you agree to some kind of exclusivity first. Has Apple every turned down an app submission because the same software is being offered on Android? If Apple did that, it would be so much worse, because it would exclude developers from half of the market (all iOS devices). If Epic doesn’t allow your game on their store, you can still sell your game on another store, to be purchased by the same consumers on the same devices. There just isn’t as much harm to be done there, because Epic doesn’t have the power to kick developers off the PC platform.
- johnnyanmac 5y ago
  >Once upon a time when EA pulled their games off Steam there was much less controversy as people understand that EA has the right to make any business decision for their first party games. we saw very different reactions back then. Most of it may have been existing unrest over EA, but I wouldn't downplay the reaction back then. > However things are quite different when Epic decides to waltz in at the last minute and scoop games from other store fronts because they can outspend others. I don't see the difference outside of it more immediately inconveniencing you with a title you care about more. And I don't understand when the contractor became the sole fault over an agreement on 2 parties. I doubt epic is holding people agreeing to terms under duress. > Has Apple every turned down an app submission because the same software is being offered on Android? - if you made an app targeting IOS using native tools (to extract out the argument of "but X framework can target 10 platforms") and it was rejected, you're SOL on what to do with it unless you want to target the jailbreak homebrew market. - If you made an app targeting Android using native tools and it was rejected, you can still sideload it or use a few other stores out there to publish it. - if you made an app targeting Steam and it was rejected, you have the entire windows ecosystem to deploy your app on. Including hosts like Itch.IO if you don't want to spin up your own server. I see epic just like Steam. It's their rules on what to accept or not. I care less about the rulings than the ability to have a plan B if they decide to not host the app. Which apple has practically zero option of.
Doxin 5y ago
I know that my use-case isn't exactly the most common one, but games being exclusive to the Epic store most definitely affect my ability to play them. I run linux. Just running the epic store itself under wine requires heaps of hacks just to get working, let alone the games it installs. Steam on the other hand is absolutely seamless these days. Steam handles all the wine hackery to make it all work. People can reasonably get annoyed if they get forced to use a non-prefered launcher.
johnnyanmac 5y ago
People will be more invested in whatever immediately inconveniences them. Apple Arcade is doing the exact same thing with timed exclusives that appear before any console port (if at all). I didn't hear much fuss about Apple's "forcing" Oceanhorn 2 to stay on IOS for a year before coming to Switch (and still TBA on PC). It's in effect the exact same factor. I'm sure once Apple had something the PC audience actually cared about, like Hades, that you'd hear the same complaints on Apple. I understand some of the dislike on EGS, but the "anti-consumer" argument is a very shallow one. I also think it's a bit dishonest for a few others elsewhere to say "they've done nothing the past 2 years", despite having a public roadmap on Trello. Whether it's stuff you personally care about is certainly up for discussion, but they are much more transparent about plans than Valve is.

Laforet 5y ago

One certainly can be bothered by both. I can live without sideloading apps but expect some control on the version of app I prefer. Apple's decision to remove the option of backing up apps from the device was the final straw for me to abandon the entire ecosystem and I have not looked back. That said, I really don't think Epic's policy and practice is necessarily benign. Multiple indie developers have reported that Epic is not even going to consider publishing your game unless you agree to some kind of exclusivity first. Has Apple every turned down an app submission because the same software is being offered on Android? In the past I have bought several consoles to play titles exclusive to that platform and I was not bothered about that. For all I know the game may not even get made without the backing of Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo, not to mention they were marketed as "Console X exclusive" from the get go. Once upon a time when EA pulled their games off Steam there was much less controversy as people understand that EA has the right to make any business decision for their first party games. However things are quite different when Epic decides to waltz in at the last minute and scoop games from other store fronts because they can outspend others.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago
>Multiple indie developers have reported that Epic is not even going to consider publishing your game unless you agree to some kind of exclusivity first. Has Apple every turned down an app submission because the same software is being offered on Android? If Apple did that, it would be so much worse, because it would exclude developers from half of the market (all iOS devices). If Epic doesn’t allow your game on their store, you can still sell your game on another store, to be purchased by the same consumers on the same devices. There just isn’t as much harm to be done there, because Epic doesn’t have the power to kick developers off the PC platform.
johnnyanmac 5y ago
>Once upon a time when EA pulled their games off Steam there was much less controversy as people understand that EA has the right to make any business decision for their first party games. we saw very different reactions back then. Most of it may have been existing unrest over EA, but I wouldn't downplay the reaction back then. > However things are quite different when Epic decides to waltz in at the last minute and scoop games from other store fronts because they can outspend others. I don't see the difference outside of it more immediately inconveniencing you with a title you care about more. And I don't understand when the contractor became the sole fault over an agreement on 2 parties. I doubt epic is holding people agreeing to terms under duress. > Has Apple every turned down an app submission because the same software is being offered on Android? - if you made an app targeting IOS using native tools (to extract out the argument of "but X framework can target 10 platforms") and it was rejected, you're SOL on what to do with it unless you want to target the jailbreak homebrew market. - If you made an app targeting Android using native tools and it was rejected, you can still sideload it or use a few other stores out there to publish it. - if you made an app targeting Steam and it was rejected, you have the entire windows ecosystem to deploy your app on. Including hosts like Itch.IO if you don't want to spin up your own server. I see epic just like Steam. It's their rules on what to accept or not. I care less about the rulings than the ability to have a plan B if they decide to not host the app. Which apple has practically zero option of.

Doxin 5y ago

I know that my use-case isn't exactly the most common one, but games being exclusive to the Epic store most definitely affect my ability to play them. I run linux. Just running the epic store itself under wine requires heaps of hacks just to get working, let alone the games it installs. Steam on the other hand is absolutely seamless these days. Steam handles all the wine hackery to make it all work. People can reasonably get annoyed if they get forced to use a non-prefered launcher.

johnnyanmac 5y ago

People will be more invested in whatever immediately inconveniences them. Apple Arcade is doing the exact same thing with timed exclusives that appear before any console port (if at all). I didn't hear much fuss about Apple's "forcing" Oceanhorn 2 to stay on IOS for a year before coming to Switch (and still TBA on PC). It's in effect the exact same factor. I'm sure once Apple had something the PC audience actually cared about, like Hades, that you'd hear the same complaints on Apple. I understand some of the dislike on EGS, but the "anti-consumer" argument is a very shallow one. I also think it's a bit dishonest for a few others elsewhere to say "they've done nothing the past 2 years", despite having a public roadmap on Trello. Whether it's stuff you personally care about is certainly up for discussion, but they are much more transparent about plans than Valve is.