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No, I was toning down what they did when I wrote that phrase. What they actually did, was bribe developers to screw people that had already paid for their prod

No, I was toning down what they did when I wrote that phrase. What they actually did, was bribe developers to screw people that had already paid for their products, in efforts to damage Steam. For example Shenmue debacle: It was kickstarter with the promise it would be on Steam, suddenly it went Epic exclusive, the people that backed on Kickstarter asked for their money back, the dev refused until people started to prepare to sue, even then it was a screwy process. I remember at the time there was 2 or 3 other games the same thing happened, where Epic paid developers of crowdfunded games to literally break their contracts with their backers.

void_mint 5y ago
Sorry, in what way is that Epic's fault? Isn't that the fault of the developers? What makes Epic offering exclusive agreements to game studios a "bribe", as opposed to any other financial/contractual commitment?
- froh 5y ago
  epic money incentives the developers to kick out the original investors (Kickstarter supporters are investors, with rather weak conditions) with no care for what they promised ,yesterday ( "not legally bing nah nah"). the word "bribe" connotes the motivation to over advantage and plain wrongdoing aspect in financial incentives, as opposed to an ethically clean normal "financial commitment", like dollar for milk.
  - void_mint 5y ago
    Again, Epic offers money to a game studio and the studio decides to screw over their existing investors and commitments. Why is Epic at fault for this?
  - edoceo 5y ago
    > investors investors assume risk. including losing the capital because of jerks.
encryptluks2 5y ago
Lol, this happens all the time in the gaming world. Not excusing bad behavior but when a company agrees to something contractually that is how the legal system works. You can't say... But they bribed me. They gave me a deal that was too good so I took it and it wasn't my fault so now I shouldn't have to honor it.
- void_mint 5y ago
  Yeah it sounds like normal capitalism to me. Epic offers someone enough money to consider screwing over their existing investors and commitments, they take it. Why wouldn't Epic do this?
  - speeder 5y ago
    Because it is illegal to pay someone else to do a crime? Breaking contracts is a crime, since these contracts are not "that serious", nobody attempted to prosecute devs, but that doesn't make it stop being a crime. Also I believe in some countries what Epic is doing is called "Tortious Interference with Contract" or something like that. I am not a lawyer though. But for example, Shenmue devs, if they didn't had backed down from refunds and got sued, they could get convicted of literally stealing money, since they got money and ran away with it. Then in their defense, they could point out that Epic told them to do it and gave them a lot of money to ensure they would do it. What you think would have happened in that case? EDIT: I will be clear, and stop arguing this point because it is being stupid now. I am not "angry" at epic, or at anyone. I am only explaining what I meant on my point above about Epic paying people to not sell on other stores, this is a fact, not a negative and toxic spin, Epic DID pay devs to not sell on other stores, they said that themselves on the trial. I am not "angry" at them for it, or with the devs, I am only saying what happened. I am not a Valve fanboy, not a Epic fanboy, I am not a fanboy, I don't like Apple disallowing sideloading, but I also think Epic approach to this subject could been done differently (not breaking rules, to start).
    - void_mint 5y ago
      > Also I believe in some countries what Epic is doing is called "Tortious Interference with Contract" or something like that. I am not a lawyer though. No, it doesn't sound at all like what you're bringing up. You can read about what you referenced here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference > But for example, Shenmue devs, if they didn't had backed down from refunds and got sued, they could get convicted of literally stealing money, since they got money and ran away with it. Again, why aren't you angry at the Shenmue devs instead? > Then in their defense, they could point out that Epic told them to do it and gave them a lot of money to ensure they would do it. Epic's agreement didn't say "Break the law to sell exclusively in our store." Epic's agreement said "Sell exclusively in our store." The decision to (potentially) break the law rests purely on the developer.
ThatPlayer 5y ago
Shenmue did not promise Steam, it promised PC. There's absolutely no mention of Steam in the original Kickstarter : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ysnet/shenmue-3/ https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ysnet/shenmue-3/
- speeder 5y ago
  https://twitter.com/LewieP/status/1138148240627515394 https://twitter.com/LewieP/status/1138148240627515394
  - void_mint 5y ago
    In what way do you think this contradicts what the user you're responding to wrote? If you promise PC exclusivity, that doesn't mean Steam. That means PC. You can promise PC exclusivity and then sign with Epic and maintain your commitment to PC exclusivity. Briefly having a Steam page doesn't change any of that.
  - ThatPlayer 5y ago
    "Previous" is an update blogpost that happened after the Kickstarter had ended. After people have given money for a promise of a PC game, not for a promise of a Steam key like you suggest.

void_mint 5y ago

Sorry, in what way is that Epic's fault? Isn't that the fault of the developers? What makes Epic offering exclusive agreements to game studios a "bribe", as opposed to any other financial/contractual commitment?

froh 5y ago
epic money incentives the developers to kick out the original investors (Kickstarter supporters are investors, with rather weak conditions) with no care for what they promised ,yesterday ( "not legally bing nah nah"). the word "bribe" connotes the motivation to over advantage and plain wrongdoing aspect in financial incentives, as opposed to an ethically clean normal "financial commitment", like dollar for milk.
- void_mint 5y ago
  Again, Epic offers money to a game studio and the studio decides to screw over their existing investors and commitments. Why is Epic at fault for this?
- edoceo 5y ago
  > investors investors assume risk. including losing the capital because of jerks.

encryptluks2 5y ago

Lol, this happens all the time in the gaming world. Not excusing bad behavior but when a company agrees to something contractually that is how the legal system works. You can't say... But they bribed me. They gave me a deal that was too good so I took it and it wasn't my fault so now I shouldn't have to honor it.

void_mint 5y ago
Yeah it sounds like normal capitalism to me. Epic offers someone enough money to consider screwing over their existing investors and commitments, they take it. Why wouldn't Epic do this?
- speeder 5y ago
  Because it is illegal to pay someone else to do a crime? Breaking contracts is a crime, since these contracts are not "that serious", nobody attempted to prosecute devs, but that doesn't make it stop being a crime. Also I believe in some countries what Epic is doing is called "Tortious Interference with Contract" or something like that. I am not a lawyer though. But for example, Shenmue devs, if they didn't had backed down from refunds and got sued, they could get convicted of literally stealing money, since they got money and ran away with it. Then in their defense, they could point out that Epic told them to do it and gave them a lot of money to ensure they would do it. What you think would have happened in that case? EDIT: I will be clear, and stop arguing this point because it is being stupid now. I am not "angry" at epic, or at anyone. I am only explaining what I meant on my point above about Epic paying people to not sell on other stores, this is a fact, not a negative and toxic spin, Epic DID pay devs to not sell on other stores, they said that themselves on the trial. I am not "angry" at them for it, or with the devs, I am only saying what happened. I am not a Valve fanboy, not a Epic fanboy, I am not a fanboy, I don't like Apple disallowing sideloading, but I also think Epic approach to this subject could been done differently (not breaking rules, to start).
  - void_mint 5y ago
    > Also I believe in some countries what Epic is doing is called "Tortious Interference with Contract" or something like that. I am not a lawyer though. No, it doesn't sound at all like what you're bringing up. You can read about what you referenced here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference > But for example, Shenmue devs, if they didn't had backed down from refunds and got sued, they could get convicted of literally stealing money, since they got money and ran away with it. Again, why aren't you angry at the Shenmue devs instead? > Then in their defense, they could point out that Epic told them to do it and gave them a lot of money to ensure they would do it. Epic's agreement didn't say "Break the law to sell exclusively in our store." Epic's agreement said "Sell exclusively in our store." The decision to (potentially) break the law rests purely on the developer.

ThatPlayer 5y ago

Shenmue did not promise Steam, it promised PC. There's absolutely no mention of Steam in the original Kickstarter : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ysnet/shenmue-3/ https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ysnet/shenmue-3/

speeder 5y ago
https://twitter.com/LewieP/status/1138148240627515394 https://twitter.com/LewieP/status/1138148240627515394
- void_mint 5y ago
  In what way do you think this contradicts what the user you're responding to wrote? If you promise PC exclusivity, that doesn't mean Steam. That means PC. You can promise PC exclusivity and then sign with Epic and maintain your commitment to PC exclusivity. Briefly having a Steam page doesn't change any of that.
- ThatPlayer 5y ago
  "Previous" is an update blogpost that happened after the Kickstarter had ended. After people have given money for a promise of a PC game, not for a promise of a Steam key like you suggest.