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> In one extreme example, my girlfriend and I took ours to the grocery store every week, and used a BASIC app I wrote for meal planning for the week (this was p
by andrepd 6y ago
> In one extreme example, my girlfriend and I took ours to the grocery store every week, and used a BASIC app I wrote for meal planning for the week (this was pre-smartphone era).
Ironically, in the smartphone era, devices aren't even supposed to be programmable anymore (to the end user). They're simply means of consuming content (and a way to be surveilled). The idea that a computer is a programmable machine has all but disappeared from the mainstream.
- II2II 6y agoBoth Google and Apple invest heavily in development tools for their respective platforms. These tools may not be as accessible to end users as BASIC, but that is because these tools support much more than basic math and graphics. Android also has a number of development tools that are vastly easier for end users to use (and, from my meager understanding, the same is true for modern iOS). The reason why you don't see this advertised for mobile devices is for much the same reason that you don't see programmability advertised for modern computers: it is a feature that only appeals to a tiny subset of the market. The reason why you see programmability advertised in a calculator is due to its utility for the target market (e.g. programming is often introduced in math class).
- andrepd 6y agoI disagree. There was a big push at some point in the development of personal computers to make programming something that even nontechnical persons could do. Think hypercard, or even smalltalk. A way for regular users to program their computer to do something else. That's long gone. There's no such tools (that I'm aware of) in the mainstream for smartphones or even computers. You say two things: "they support so much more than TI-basic", well yes and that's the problem. They are developer's tools, not user-programmer tools. If you want to write a quick program to help you in some task you don't have a quick BASIC-like tool to do that. And you also say "a feature that appeals only to a tiny subset of the market", again a self-fulfilling prophecy. There are no tools for non-technical users to program their devices, so only a minority of users do want to program their devices (or even realise that they can do so!)
- defterGoose 6y agoWhich is funny, because I bet Apple could re-engineer hypercard for iOS and people would absolutely love it. Would probably attract more power users even, if they gave more more granular control (I realize this is anathema to Apple at this point). There are definitely ways to let users choose how "dangerous" to make themselves.
- moth-fuzz 6y agoIt's very interesting that you make the distinction between a 'developer' and a 'user-programmer'. I've never thought of it that way before, but I've come to the realization that all the programs I write are not written specifically for my computer, my computer is simply one of many compile targets and platforms which they can run on. It would be incredible if I could actually program the normal operations of my computer from user space, instead of writing programs for an abstract x86_64 device which, at runtime, happens to be my computer.
- nl 6y agoApple's Shortcuts app brings up a "scripting" option in the "new action" menu. It's rather capable.
- pjmlp 6y agoYeah, the programming apps I have installed are a fruit of my imagination. Do they expose everything? No. Are they good enough for learning purposes and basic coding on the go? More than enough.
- II2II 6y agoI suspect the biggest hurdle in this discussion is agreeing upon what we mean by a programming language for end users, or even what qualifies as a programming language. Some examples that I can think of: Automator, AppleScript, Swift Playgrounds are all intended to be accessible to end users. Spreadsheets typically provide programming-like constructs (without resorting to lower level scripting). There are versions of BASIC for most platforms (including Android and the Nintendo Switch). The last time I looked into it Smalltalk (via Squeak) was still being maintained for computers and it looks like there are Smalltalk implementations available for Android. While it can legitimately be pointed out that most of these options have to be sought out, they are a subset of what is available. While I agree that people not realizing that their devices can be programmed is a hurdle, a large number of people do realize that it is actually software that controls the operation of their devices yet have very little interest in writing their own programs.
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago> These tools may not be as accessible to end users as BASIC, but that is because these tools support much more than basic math and graphics. Okay, so where are the options that only support basic math and graphics?
- mitjam 6y agoWith Pythonista you can develop small Python programs on iOS.
- pjmlp 6y agoThere are several programming environments to chose from in both stores. Surely any 10 year old is savvy enough to find them.
- andrepd 6y agoCan you give examples? To be clear I don't mean programming environments that a tech-minded 10 year old can learn on if he doesn't have a PC, I mean tools to let non-technical users program their devices (hypercard probably the best example I can think of)
- pjmlp 6y agoThe ones I care about are for Python, C#, F#, Swift, GLSL shaders, Java, C, C++. Maybe Pocket Code fits your idea. https://share.catrob.at/app/ https://share.catrob.at/app/