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> But it’s not clear to me what the alternative is and maybe that’s why they will last. We already know what the alternative is, in fact that was what we had f

> But it’s not clear to me what the alternative is and maybe that’s why they will last. We already know what the alternative is, in fact that was what we had for a long time: App Store + freedom to install/execute third party apps. Just like how all three desktop OSes always did, just like how Apple's own MacOS does it, and it's doing just fine. Nobody cares about what Microsoft Store does or how Steam curates, because there are options. If Apple would unlock these pocket computers that we still call "phones" out of habit, this category of issues would largely go away. > Lastly, a bunch of different app stores is a terrible user experience. Just look at the friction of finding which streaming service has a particular movie or TV show. I can't follow this argument. Would you rather have SamsungTV to come pre-installed and be the only option for your TV? or LG to carefully curate what you can and can't watch on your own TV, and take a major cut of sales so your subscription is now %30 more expensive? As a consumer I'm happy with competition and options.

hparadiz 5y ago
> If Apple would unlock these pocket computers that we still call "phones" out of habit, this category of issues would largely go away. I think the fact that Microsoft didn't do this with Windows and therefore allowed the entire computer revolution to go forward is lost on many people. There are so many ideas that are killed in their crib because 30% is too much to give away when you're a startup. On Android I basically stopped using many official play store apps and instead went open source. Ungoogled chromium for example allows desktop extensions and I'm currently typing this comment with ublock origin on mobile working perfectly just like on desktop. I don't understand how a self proclaimed techie can cede control to that level and not be able to install programs without big brother Apple's blessing.
- Pokerkoffer 5y ago
  I was lurking for years here and i just registered to ask you where do i find the ungoogled chrome that allows extensions on android? The official ungoogled version does not support extensions. Do you mean Kiwi?
  - hparadiz 5y ago
    https://git.droidware.info/wchen342/ungoogled-chromium-android/src/tag/88.0.4324.182-2-webview https://git.droidware.info/wchen342/ungoogled-chromium-andro... You'll need to manually install an extension to allow installing from the official chrome extension website.
kgc 5y ago
You claim that OSX App Store is doing just fine, but where are you getting your numbers?
- aranelsurion 5y ago
  I claim OS X/Mac (from a consumer's perspective) is doing just fine, or at least it's not doing any worse because it allows apps outside of App Store.
dhosek 5y ago
>We already know what the alternative is, in fact that was what we had for a long time: App Store + freedom to install/execute third party apps. Just like how all three desktop OSes always did, just like how Apple's own MacOS does it, and it's doing just fine. Also today on HN: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/apple-brass-discussed-disclosing-128-million-iphone-hack-then-decided-not-to/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/apple-brass-discusse... >XcodeGhost billed itself as faster to download in China, compared with Xcode available from Apple. For developers to have run the counterfeit version, they would have had to click through a warning delivered by Gatekeeper, the macOS security feature that requires apps to be digitally signed by a known developer. Developers (should be) in the top half of user sophistication and they download a counterfeit version of XCode and ignore warnings about an unsigned app and install it anyway causing a breach affecting 128 million iOS users. Imagine what Aunt Ethel will be able to accomplish with CuteKittyAppStore.kp
- aranelsurion 5y ago
  Both developers and Aunt Ethel's of the world have been able to install anything they wanted on all three PC platforms since their inception, yet the world keeps spinning. Locking people out of choices to protect some supposed interest is paternalistic, especially considering Apple already has a horse in the race (its fat %30 cut) and has almost no incentive to consider what is right for the consumer. If you don't want the government have a say on content you consume (like, Apple and porn/erotica), decisions you make and products you buy, why would you let Apple do those things? Either way, simple act of allowing users to unlock their devices does not immediately mean Aunt Ethel would care to do that. In another topic here it was recently discussed that a large potion of users likely don't even open Settings app, and even the most enthusiastic aunts will likely be happy with a few trustworthy stores like, say Steam and Kindle, and that'd be all. btw, > ignore warnings about an unsigned app and install it anyway that sounds like a policy/enforcement failure to me.
- veeti 5y ago
  Notice how the supposedly "quality controlled" App Store walled garden totally and utterly failed to protect its users from XcodeGhost infected apps.

hparadiz 5y ago

> If Apple would unlock these pocket computers that we still call "phones" out of habit, this category of issues would largely go away. I think the fact that Microsoft didn't do this with Windows and therefore allowed the entire computer revolution to go forward is lost on many people. There are so many ideas that are killed in their crib because 30% is too much to give away when you're a startup. On Android I basically stopped using many official play store apps and instead went open source. Ungoogled chromium for example allows desktop extensions and I'm currently typing this comment with ublock origin on mobile working perfectly just like on desktop. I don't understand how a self proclaimed techie can cede control to that level and not be able to install programs without big brother Apple's blessing.

Pokerkoffer 5y ago
I was lurking for years here and i just registered to ask you where do i find the ungoogled chrome that allows extensions on android? The official ungoogled version does not support extensions. Do you mean Kiwi?
- hparadiz 5y ago
  https://git.droidware.info/wchen342/ungoogled-chromium-android/src/tag/88.0.4324.182-2-webview https://git.droidware.info/wchen342/ungoogled-chromium-andro... You'll need to manually install an extension to allow installing from the official chrome extension website.

kgc 5y ago

You claim that OSX App Store is doing just fine, but where are you getting your numbers?

aranelsurion 5y ago
I claim OS X/Mac (from a consumer's perspective) is doing just fine, or at least it's not doing any worse because it allows apps outside of App Store.

dhosek 5y ago

>We already know what the alternative is, in fact that was what we had for a long time: App Store + freedom to install/execute third party apps. Just like how all three desktop OSes always did, just like how Apple's own MacOS does it, and it's doing just fine. Also today on HN: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/apple-brass-discussed-disclosing-128-million-iphone-hack-then-decided-not-to/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/apple-brass-discusse... >XcodeGhost billed itself as faster to download in China, compared with Xcode available from Apple. For developers to have run the counterfeit version, they would have had to click through a warning delivered by Gatekeeper, the macOS security feature that requires apps to be digitally signed by a known developer. Developers (should be) in the top half of user sophistication and they download a counterfeit version of XCode and ignore warnings about an unsigned app and install it anyway causing a breach affecting 128 million iOS users. Imagine what Aunt Ethel will be able to accomplish with CuteKittyAppStore.kp

aranelsurion 5y ago
Both developers and Aunt Ethel's of the world have been able to install anything they wanted on all three PC platforms since their inception, yet the world keeps spinning. Locking people out of choices to protect some supposed interest is paternalistic, especially considering Apple already has a horse in the race (its fat %30 cut) and has almost no incentive to consider what is right for the consumer. If you don't want the government have a say on content you consume (like, Apple and porn/erotica), decisions you make and products you buy, why would you let Apple do those things? Either way, simple act of allowing users to unlock their devices does not immediately mean Aunt Ethel would care to do that. In another topic here it was recently discussed that a large potion of users likely don't even open Settings app, and even the most enthusiastic aunts will likely be happy with a few trustworthy stores like, say Steam and Kindle, and that'd be all. btw, > ignore warnings about an unsigned app and install it anyway that sounds like a policy/enforcement failure to me.
veeti 5y ago
Notice how the supposedly "quality controlled" App Store walled garden totally and utterly failed to protect its users from XcodeGhost infected apps.