6 ms·

I don't know--that French Laundry menu feels pretentious to me too. For example, many, many items in the description have unnecessary modifiers. If going for si

I don't know--that French Laundry menu feels pretentious to me too. For example, many, many items in the description have unnecessary modifiers. If going for simplicity, they wouldn't be telling me it is "Maine" lobster tail, "French Laundry garden" cabbage, "Sacramento Delta" asparagus, "King Richard" leeks, etc. All of that is selling people on the idea it is quality, not simply trusting that the result speaks for itself. If I trust their reputation, I should be able to trust they select a good lobster tail, cabbage, asparagus and leek without them trying to sell it to me. Those sorts of extra food descriptions put me off (in the same way that similar modifiers in a, for example, Blue Apron ad do...) And throwing in unnecessary french words is just as off putting to my sensibilities (but can be forgiven, given their name). So is omitting dollar signs. Or unnecessary italics. I could go on. My point is they absolutely are trying to put out a perception of quality food/atmosphere with their menu design, just in a different way and with fewer items than they Cheesecake Factory version. They're just doing the humble brag version of the same thing.

corty 5y ago
It is just an extension of the current trends in fine cuisine: Hide sophistication behind apparent simplicity. It isn't good or bad, it's just the current fashion that dictates how things are done. 20 years in the future, this will have changed.
- mason55 5y ago
  It’s like any other trend. Elaborate french menus were en vogue in the 80s and 90s, eventually the style trickled down to places like Cheesecake Factory, and once they’re doing it it’s not cool any more. As chains adopt the simple and local style the high end will move on to something else.
- maxwell 5y ago
  I agree, but do you think anything's changed over the past 10 years?
  - corty 5y ago
    Yes, but gradually. E.g. the change from fine dining to more casual fine dining (even the officially non-casual fine dining became more casual and less stuffy). Since the 80s, complexity and affinity to exotics also went down, local and sustainable became trends. Insects and hay are extreme indicators of that. Around 20 years ago, vegetarian dining also became a (still rare) option. 10 years ago there was a short hype around molecular cuisine. I think the big changes happen in terms of generations of chefs and guests, so around a 30year timeline. Caveat: everything is just my observation, no statistics or anything to prove it.
sokoloff 5y ago
> “Maine” lobster tail Atlantic and Pacific (spiny) lobster (not really a lobster) are quite different though and it would otherwise be ambiguous.
crygin 5y ago
I don't disagree with you in principle, but the TFL menu specifically is kind of... a thing. It's explicitly stylized after an Escoffier-style menu (see e.g. http://ciadigitalcollections.culinary.edu/digital/collection/p16940coll1/id/6349 http://ciadigitalcollections.culinary.edu/digital/collection... ), is instantly recognizable in the world of fine dining, and is actually often not given to the diner until after the meal (the menu is not what's getting anyone to eat at TFL -- you're making a reservation months in advance).
ckdarby 5y ago
I will say that the menu itself might not say it but the staff will give you a story behind the dish including the different ingredients.
p1necone 5y ago
Eh, I think it's nice to know where ingredients are coming from. Especially with the stuff from their own garden.
hattmall 5y ago
There's quite a bit of variation in lobster based on where it comes from though. Idk about the other stuff but lobster and seafood in general has lots of location specific nuance. Maine lobster is pretty much standard though so not really a selling point. A deepwater north Carolina lobster would be something premium.
gumby 5y ago
I really hate the gratuitous adjective issue too but the ones you chose I wouldn't call inherently pretentious, except that they are exaggerations that don't add much (or any) value. There really is pretentious gibberish in that menu. Maine (well New England) lobsters are different from langoustines which are often referred to as lobsters in English. Though personally when eating the tail I can't tell the difference. Perhaps I'm a philistine and some can. This is up there with the "Spanish" capers..I know you can tell the difference. "French Laundry garden" cabbage..."grown in our garden" is good enough for me. "Sacramento Delta asparagus" ... not as good as Half Moon Bay? "local" would be fine. A "King Richard" leeks actually is a specific breed of leek. Oh but wait, it's the plain old leek you'd find in any grocery store. Sure glad they let me know. For true prevention let's switch to the nouns, shall we? It's OK to use a foreign word that has no, or only a distant, English relative. But "Streusel" is called "strudel" in English. The Saboyon doesn't exist in English but the French word is for a sweet dessert which I really doubt is used in an oyster dish. etc. With all those adjectives someone should do a "truth in advertising" sting on those restaurants. It'd make great TV
- tasogare 5y ago
  > But "Streusel" is called "strudel" in English I think you’re confusing two things. Strudel seems to be strudel as well in English, while Streusel is a kind of crumble, it’s not a dish by itself.
  - corty 5y ago
    German "Streusel" is just the crumbly dryish component covering a cake or pastry made from a little flour, butter and lots of sugar. Streuselkuchen is a cake made with yeast dough covered in Streusel. Optionally, one can enhance this with fruit or vegetables, e.g. rhubarb. But cheesecake, cheese pastry (with a flaky pastry base) or fruity pastry can also be covered with some Streuseln. Strudel is a bigger (generous 1 portion or more) piece of pastry (usually puff pastry, but plain pastry dough is also not unusual) with fruit filling, commonly apples and raisins. Often served with vanilla sauce. Of those, I've usually seen strudel to have the original German meaning while streusel in english is usually used to mean Streuselkuchen with fruit.
azinman2 5y ago
Disagree. If I’m going to pay $600 for a meal, I want to be sold on what’s to come. Letting me know that things are special, rare, and detailed gives me a better idea of what’s to come and makes me more excited for it. If I saw very few words yet high price tag, it would be difficult to calibrate my expectations and even know what to get. You don’t go to the French Laundry for a meal, you go for an experience.

corty 5y ago

It is just an extension of the current trends in fine cuisine: Hide sophistication behind apparent simplicity. It isn't good or bad, it's just the current fashion that dictates how things are done. 20 years in the future, this will have changed.

mason55 5y ago
It’s like any other trend. Elaborate french menus were en vogue in the 80s and 90s, eventually the style trickled down to places like Cheesecake Factory, and once they’re doing it it’s not cool any more. As chains adopt the simple and local style the high end will move on to something else.
maxwell 5y ago
I agree, but do you think anything's changed over the past 10 years?
- corty 5y ago
  Yes, but gradually. E.g. the change from fine dining to more casual fine dining (even the officially non-casual fine dining became more casual and less stuffy). Since the 80s, complexity and affinity to exotics also went down, local and sustainable became trends. Insects and hay are extreme indicators of that. Around 20 years ago, vegetarian dining also became a (still rare) option. 10 years ago there was a short hype around molecular cuisine. I think the big changes happen in terms of generations of chefs and guests, so around a 30year timeline. Caveat: everything is just my observation, no statistics or anything to prove it.

sokoloff 5y ago

> “Maine” lobster tail Atlantic and Pacific (spiny) lobster (not really a lobster) are quite different though and it would otherwise be ambiguous.

crygin 5y ago

I don't disagree with you in principle, but the TFL menu specifically is kind of... a thing. It's explicitly stylized after an Escoffier-style menu (see e.g. http://ciadigitalcollections.culinary.edu/digital/collection/p16940coll1/id/6349 http://ciadigitalcollections.culinary.edu/digital/collection... ), is instantly recognizable in the world of fine dining, and is actually often not given to the diner until after the meal (the menu is not what's getting anyone to eat at TFL -- you're making a reservation months in advance).

ckdarby 5y ago

I will say that the menu itself might not say it but the staff will give you a story behind the dish including the different ingredients.

p1necone 5y ago

Eh, I think it's nice to know where ingredients are coming from. Especially with the stuff from their own garden.

hattmall 5y ago

There's quite a bit of variation in lobster based on where it comes from though. Idk about the other stuff but lobster and seafood in general has lots of location specific nuance. Maine lobster is pretty much standard though so not really a selling point. A deepwater north Carolina lobster would be something premium.

gumby 5y ago

I really hate the gratuitous adjective issue too but the ones you chose I wouldn't call inherently pretentious, except that they are exaggerations that don't add much (or any) value. There really is pretentious gibberish in that menu. Maine (well New England) lobsters are different from langoustines which are often referred to as lobsters in English. Though personally when eating the tail I can't tell the difference. Perhaps I'm a philistine and some can. This is up there with the "Spanish" capers..I know you can tell the difference. "French Laundry garden" cabbage..."grown in our garden" is good enough for me. "Sacramento Delta asparagus" ... not as good as Half Moon Bay? "local" would be fine. A "King Richard" leeks actually is a specific breed of leek. Oh but wait, it's the plain old leek you'd find in any grocery store. Sure glad they let me know. For true prevention let's switch to the nouns, shall we? It's OK to use a foreign word that has no, or only a distant, English relative. But "Streusel" is called "strudel" in English. The Saboyon doesn't exist in English but the French word is for a sweet dessert which I really doubt is used in an oyster dish. etc. With all those adjectives someone should do a "truth in advertising" sting on those restaurants. It'd make great TV

tasogare 5y ago
> But "Streusel" is called "strudel" in English I think you’re confusing two things. Strudel seems to be strudel as well in English, while Streusel is a kind of crumble, it’s not a dish by itself.
- corty 5y ago
  German "Streusel" is just the crumbly dryish component covering a cake or pastry made from a little flour, butter and lots of sugar. Streuselkuchen is a cake made with yeast dough covered in Streusel. Optionally, one can enhance this with fruit or vegetables, e.g. rhubarb. But cheesecake, cheese pastry (with a flaky pastry base) or fruity pastry can also be covered with some Streuseln. Strudel is a bigger (generous 1 portion or more) piece of pastry (usually puff pastry, but plain pastry dough is also not unusual) with fruit filling, commonly apples and raisins. Often served with vanilla sauce. Of those, I've usually seen strudel to have the original German meaning while streusel in english is usually used to mean Streuselkuchen with fruit.

azinman2 5y ago

Disagree. If I’m going to pay $600 for a meal, I want to be sold on what’s to come. Letting me know that things are special, rare, and detailed gives me a better idea of what’s to come and makes me more excited for it. If I saw very few words yet high price tag, it would be difficult to calibrate my expectations and even know what to get. You don’t go to the French Laundry for a meal, you go for an experience.