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As a black English man who enjoys a bit of rock and metal myself I have wondered this myself. I have some theories, which I fully admit are half baked and quite

As a black English man who enjoys a bit of rock and metal myself I have wondered this myself. I have some theories, which I fully admit are half baked and quite possibly incorrect. However, I think that a lot of the culture around rock and metal is off-putting to a lot of black people. If you look at something like black metal and it's sub-genres, a lot of the culture and imagery revolves around satanism and European paganism; which is popular with a certain segment of European people but would hold little to no interest to those of an Afro or Caribbean heritage. Especially since so many black people have quite strong Religious beliefs. (Less so these days possibly, but many still pay lip service at the very least.) If you then look at the 80's hair metal and glam metal genres with the emphasis on long hair and make up and an image of sexual ambiguity. I think we can all agree that there (sadly) exists a big homophobia problem amongst many black communities; which means that the aforementioned sexual ambiguity would be very off-putting to them. Those are obviously extreme examples, but I think I've maybe made my point. I'm probably talking out of my ass, but those are my thoughts for what it's worth.

YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
No, I agree. I listen to black bands but sometimes I'm happy that a few of them choose to sing (ish) in their native Scandinavian languages that I don't understand. I think I'd be very disturbed if I knew what they're singing about. Brrr. And indeed casual racism, sexism, hooliganism, homophobia, and general assholeness was common among my metalhead friends growing up (and for some it wasn't just poseuring). So I can see why black kids wouldn't feel welcome in today's metal scene at least. At times I didn't either. (My friends were equally dismissive of hair metal as "faggots" also, of course. Goes hand in hand with the rest. Oh, I did mention homophobia). But, why not raise a middle finger to today's metal scene (or the rock scene back in the day) and go do their own thing- their own rock thing, like they did their own rap thing etc? That's what I wonder about. Although, I guess I might as well ask why white kids don't all dig classical music, or their respective folk musics. Tastes change across generations. Edit: having thought about it a bit more I think what you say is simply: any kind of rock was tainted by its association with attitudes that were offputting to black kids, one way or the other. So they didn't want to do their own rock thing because the idea of any kind of rock thing felt wrong and as if it couldn't really be "theirs". If I think of it that way, that answers my question actually.
mixmastamyk 5y ago
Might be the “representation matters” idea. If you’ve not seen a rocker that looks like you in many decades, there might not be any motivation. The glam rock died by the 90s, no?
TimonKnigge 5y ago
I feel like the satanism should give it more appeal, not less. The satanism in metal came from an anti-authoritarian place, and now that the west has become less Christian, metal has become noticeably less satanist. In particular I've noticed that bands that do still invoke this imagery tend to come from more religious places (e.g. Behemoth comes from catholic Poland).
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > I feel like the satanism should give it more appeal, not less. The satanism in metal came from an anti-authoritarian place Just because it came from an anti-authoritarian place doesn’t mean the particular symbolism for that feeling translates well to different subcultures.
Mediterraneo10 5y ago
There are underground metal scenes in the Muslim world, in spite of disapproval from officialdom that the music is anti-religious. Those in Lebanon and Iran have been well covered, for example. Often its afficionados speak of the supposed universality of metal, and certainly don’t see it as bound to European paganism, so that alone doesn’t seem to explain its failure to connect with those of Afro and Caribbean heritage. I would instead point to the fact that you can't really dance to metal. Music-making in West Africa and in its diaspora is strongly connected to dancing socially (and maybe getting your freak on), which has never been a priority of metal.
- YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
  I so disagree. You can totally dance to metal. First, there's headbanging and moshing which are absolutely kinds of dance, as is air-guitar playing (a kind of... interpretive dance; I guess?). These may not be what most people think of when they think of dance, but most people also don't think of growling when they think of singing, and yet growling is a form of singing - and in fact one that is connected to traditional forms of singing like the Kargyraa technique in Tuvan throat singing [1] or the Sufi zikar [2]. And if I had a penny for every time I've been told "that's not music" for any metal band I liked to listen to, I'd be a penny gazzilionaire. I digress. You also can dance-dance to metal. Why not? It's got rythm to spare. If we don't see anyone dancing-dancing to it it's only because metalheads are ... to be kind, self-conscious. It's just a matter of what we're used to I think. __________ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuvan_throat_singing#Kargyraa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuvan_throat_singing#Kargyraa That's when they start to growl as they whistle. Mental. [2] Particularly Kemal Zikar; for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GZnVKcSzMM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GZnVKcSzMM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRnjV013f5I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRnjV013f5I Bonus Sufi zikar mosh pit (with genuine respect): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5goISKPSH8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5goISKPSH8 And with headbanging: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW34HM7RCgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW34HM7RCgo
  - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
    Obviously, when I said "you can't dance to metal", I was referring to dancing as traditionally pursued by those populations. They probably don't want to switch from the dancing they are used to to headbanging and moshing.

YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago

No, I agree. I listen to black bands but sometimes I'm happy that a few of them choose to sing (ish) in their native Scandinavian languages that I don't understand. I think I'd be very disturbed if I knew what they're singing about. Brrr. And indeed casual racism, sexism, hooliganism, homophobia, and general assholeness was common among my metalhead friends growing up (and for some it wasn't just poseuring). So I can see why black kids wouldn't feel welcome in today's metal scene at least. At times I didn't either. (My friends were equally dismissive of hair metal as "faggots" also, of course. Goes hand in hand with the rest. Oh, I did mention homophobia). But, why not raise a middle finger to today's metal scene (or the rock scene back in the day) and go do their own thing- their own rock thing, like they did their own rap thing etc? That's what I wonder about. Although, I guess I might as well ask why white kids don't all dig classical music, or their respective folk musics. Tastes change across generations. Edit: having thought about it a bit more I think what you say is simply: any kind of rock was tainted by its association with attitudes that were offputting to black kids, one way or the other. So they didn't want to do their own rock thing because the idea of any kind of rock thing felt wrong and as if it couldn't really be "theirs". If I think of it that way, that answers my question actually.

mixmastamyk 5y ago

Might be the “representation matters” idea. If you’ve not seen a rocker that looks like you in many decades, there might not be any motivation. The glam rock died by the 90s, no?

TimonKnigge 5y ago

I feel like the satanism should give it more appeal, not less. The satanism in metal came from an anti-authoritarian place, and now that the west has become less Christian, metal has become noticeably less satanist. In particular I've noticed that bands that do still invoke this imagery tend to come from more religious places (e.g. Behemoth comes from catholic Poland).

dragonwriter 5y ago
> I feel like the satanism should give it more appeal, not less. The satanism in metal came from an anti-authoritarian place Just because it came from an anti-authoritarian place doesn’t mean the particular symbolism for that feeling translates well to different subcultures.

Mediterraneo10 5y ago

There are underground metal scenes in the Muslim world, in spite of disapproval from officialdom that the music is anti-religious. Those in Lebanon and Iran have been well covered, for example. Often its afficionados speak of the supposed universality of metal, and certainly don’t see it as bound to European paganism, so that alone doesn’t seem to explain its failure to connect with those of Afro and Caribbean heritage. I would instead point to the fact that you can't really dance to metal. Music-making in West Africa and in its diaspora is strongly connected to dancing socially (and maybe getting your freak on), which has never been a priority of metal.

YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
I so disagree. You can totally dance to metal. First, there's headbanging and moshing which are absolutely kinds of dance, as is air-guitar playing (a kind of... interpretive dance; I guess?). These may not be what most people think of when they think of dance, but most people also don't think of growling when they think of singing, and yet growling is a form of singing - and in fact one that is connected to traditional forms of singing like the Kargyraa technique in Tuvan throat singing [1] or the Sufi zikar [2]. And if I had a penny for every time I've been told "that's not music" for any metal band I liked to listen to, I'd be a penny gazzilionaire. I digress. You also can dance-dance to metal. Why not? It's got rythm to spare. If we don't see anyone dancing-dancing to it it's only because metalheads are ... to be kind, self-conscious. It's just a matter of what we're used to I think. __________ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuvan_throat_singing#Kargyraa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuvan_throat_singing#Kargyraa That's when they start to growl as they whistle. Mental. [2] Particularly Kemal Zikar; for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GZnVKcSzMM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GZnVKcSzMM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRnjV013f5I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRnjV013f5I Bonus Sufi zikar mosh pit (with genuine respect): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5goISKPSH8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5goISKPSH8 And with headbanging: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW34HM7RCgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW34HM7RCgo
- Mediterraneo10 5y ago
  Obviously, when I said "you can't dance to metal", I was referring to dancing as traditionally pursued by those populations. They probably don't want to switch from the dancing they are used to to headbanging and moshing.