4 ms·

if the only value provided by the "nice neighbourhood of mom and pop stores" is the warm fuzzy feelings, that's not enough value for me. i don't want to live i

if the only value provided by the "nice neighbourhood of mom and pop stores" is the warm fuzzy feelings, that's not enough value for me. i don't want to live in what's essentially a theme park full of fake stores that only exist because it makes the neighbourhood seem nicer, or where the shopkeepers are basically paid entertainers present for their aesthetic value. if that's the sort of city we're building, let's skip the inefficiency of paying local retailers to provide the service of existing and go right to universal income.

_qwfv 6y ago
It's not just aesthetic value. Yes, there is aesthetic value but also there is the value of "People can afford to live and work here." A community that contains some shop owners, some office workers, some landscapers, etc. is a better community in my eyes.
- notatoad 6y ago
  i agree with you that a community where people can afford to live and work is good, but the work needs to actually be productive. if a retail store's only value is unrelated to their retail business, then i think it's fair to call them only aesthetic. paying people to work in shops that are worse in every way than the alternative except for being local is not productive. no real value is being created. it's a make-work scheme, and paying those workers to not work would be more efficient.
  - _qwfv 6y ago
    It is productive. My local bike shop sells me bike parts I need, just not as conveniently or efficiently as Amazon. The ruthless pursuit of efficiency as it's own goal is a trap. Squeezing out every societal optimization is a very engineering centric mindset. There are many, many times where the most efficient solution to a problem isn't the "best" one, and we need to collectively get better at recognizing when that's the case.
    - sokoloff 6y ago
      That’s the odd thing though: Amazon has several disadvantages compared to your local bike shop (not being local, not being able to see your bike, not having a human who can talk to you, and not being able to hand you the parts right now). That your local bike shop, despite starting with these significant advantages, manages to be less convenient and efficient for you is interesting and unexpected (and does not bode well for them and others like them).
      - Pfhreak 6y ago
        I chose bike shop arbitrarily. I could have said hardware store, cake supply store, game store, toy store, etc.

_qwfv 6y ago

It's not just aesthetic value. Yes, there is aesthetic value but also there is the value of "People can afford to live and work here." A community that contains some shop owners, some office workers, some landscapers, etc. is a better community in my eyes.

notatoad 6y ago
i agree with you that a community where people can afford to live and work is good, but the work needs to actually be productive. if a retail store's only value is unrelated to their retail business, then i think it's fair to call them only aesthetic. paying people to work in shops that are worse in every way than the alternative except for being local is not productive. no real value is being created. it's a make-work scheme, and paying those workers to not work would be more efficient.
- _qwfv 6y ago
  It is productive. My local bike shop sells me bike parts I need, just not as conveniently or efficiently as Amazon. The ruthless pursuit of efficiency as it's own goal is a trap. Squeezing out every societal optimization is a very engineering centric mindset. There are many, many times where the most efficient solution to a problem isn't the "best" one, and we need to collectively get better at recognizing when that's the case.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    That’s the odd thing though: Amazon has several disadvantages compared to your local bike shop (not being local, not being able to see your bike, not having a human who can talk to you, and not being able to hand you the parts right now). That your local bike shop, despite starting with these significant advantages, manages to be less convenient and efficient for you is interesting and unexpected (and does not bode well for them and others like them).
    - Pfhreak 6y ago
      I chose bike shop arbitrarily. I could have said hardware store, cake supply store, game store, toy store, etc.