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I'm not sure the law applies to Apple in this case. It wasn't Apple that was hacked. Another way of looking at it is if Facebook was hacked, and the hacker put

I'm not sure the law applies to Apple in this case. It wasn't Apple that was hacked. Another way of looking at it is if Facebook was hacked, and the hacker put malicious code into the Facebook iOS app and Apple notices, it's Facebook that is the liable party; Apple just noticed.

lupire 5y ago
What company had full control over whether the Facebook software is installed on my phone?
- nemothekid 5y ago
  You? I’m not sure what point you are making. Apple does not preload apps onto your phone.
  - simion314 5y ago
    Apple/Google restrict what apps are in the Store , they and their fans will say that the locked store is for security. When Apple/Google review fails (it will never be a perfect review process), reasonable people would say that Apple/Google would not only remove the malware from the store but they would also at least notify the victims.
Dah00n 5y ago
Apple controls and approve Appstore apps. If it were in the app Apple is clearly also a party since they are paid to approve it. It's only s matter of time before the EU will smack Apple down.
- nemothekid 5y ago
  I’m not sure how (1) follows (2). How is Apple “clearly” also a party when they aren’t even given the source code to the app?
  - pornel 5y ago
    Apple insists on having editorial and technical control over apps, but also they take no responsibility for their decisions and their technology that allowed bad apps. It's their platform, their APIs, their sandbox, their store, their verification, their rules, but when something goes wrong, it's someone else's fault. That doesn't seem fair (even though it's legal currently).
    - B1FF_PSUVM 5y ago
      So, like one of those parking lots that do not take responsibility for thefts in their premises?
    - simondotau 5y ago
      By that logic, Governments who enact and enforce laws should be held responsible for all crime.
    - nemothekid 5y ago
      >It's their platform, their APIs, their sandbox, their store, their verification, their rules, but when something goes wrong, it's someone else's fault. Does this also mean Microsoft is at fault when someone writes malware that exploits Chrome on Windows? After all it’s the Windows platform and API. Should I also blame RMS when someone writes malware in C? After all they might have used the libc.
      - simion314 5y ago
        >Does this also mean Microsoft is at fault when someone writes malware that exploits Chrome on Windows? After all it’s the Windows platform and API. Should I also blame RMS when someone writes malware in C? After all they might have used the libc. Say someone put malware on Ubuntu or Debian official repos, the developers find it and silently cleanup the mess but keep it quiet because of PR. Who should notify the victims> the package maintainer, the individuals responsible for the malware, the distribution as a whole? If the Microsoft Store or Steam distributed malware, even if they I expect from them to aknowledge what happened, plans to improve the situation and the victims should recieve an email or notification in the store with what happened,and what should they do. I am not asking for Apple to get the blame for the malware , just to acknowledge that the Store is not 100% safe and this can happen (bad for PR) and let the victims know.
pornel 5y ago
Apple is in charge when it benefits them, and devs are in charge when there's a liability.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
gpm 5y ago
I'm not sure any particular law like that applies to Apple, but I would actually be somewhat surprised if they didn't. You bought an Apple device, used it to access Apple's servers, which pointed you at software hosted on Apple's servers, which you proceeded to download from Apple's servers, if it was non-free software you paid Apple for it, and Apple has final approval over any software that is actually distributed to consumers. Edit: And if you were infected via way of an update, the update mechanism is Apple's software asked Apple's servers if there was any updates, and when Apple's servers said yes they downloaded software from Apple's servers and deployed it on your phone. To argue by analogy, Amazon is responsible for goods they sell on there store that they don't even distribute themselves... https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/1/22414185/california-appeals-court-amazon-marketplace-responsible-third-party-hoverboard https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/1/22414185/california-appeal...
- simondotau 5y ago
  So if a criminal sneaks into a Campbells soup factory and poisons a batch of tomato soup, the proper response should be to blame Walmart for selling it. Impeccable logic.
  - gpm 5y ago
    "Blame", no. Require that Walmart issues a recall, alerts the purchasers of the defective soup, and issues refunds, yes, that is how the law works. Walmart in turn can go after Campbell for the cost of the refunds, but the end purchasers aren't a party to that suit. Campbell (and maybe Walmart directly) can also go after the criminal for damages, again not the consumers problem.
    - simondotau 5y ago
      Apple did all the things you described in the first paragraph.
      - gpm 5y ago
        On the contrary, the complaint is that they did not. They specifically chose not to alert those affected. But also... you do understand that we're talking about analogous but not identical laws here right? The context of this entire thread is laws that specifically require notifying people of data breaches, and not laws that require recalling bad food.

lupire 5y ago

What company had full control over whether the Facebook software is installed on my phone?

nemothekid 5y ago
You? I’m not sure what point you are making. Apple does not preload apps onto your phone.
- simion314 5y ago
  Apple/Google restrict what apps are in the Store , they and their fans will say that the locked store is for security. When Apple/Google review fails (it will never be a perfect review process), reasonable people would say that Apple/Google would not only remove the malware from the store but they would also at least notify the victims.

Dah00n 5y ago

Apple controls and approve Appstore apps. If it were in the app Apple is clearly also a party since they are paid to approve it. It's only s matter of time before the EU will smack Apple down.

nemothekid 5y ago
I’m not sure how (1) follows (2). How is Apple “clearly” also a party when they aren’t even given the source code to the app?
- pornel 5y ago
  Apple insists on having editorial and technical control over apps, but also they take no responsibility for their decisions and their technology that allowed bad apps. It's their platform, their APIs, their sandbox, their store, their verification, their rules, but when something goes wrong, it's someone else's fault. That doesn't seem fair (even though it's legal currently).
  - B1FF_PSUVM 5y ago
    So, like one of those parking lots that do not take responsibility for thefts in their premises?
  - simondotau 5y ago
    By that logic, Governments who enact and enforce laws should be held responsible for all crime.
  - nemothekid 5y ago
    >It's their platform, their APIs, their sandbox, their store, their verification, their rules, but when something goes wrong, it's someone else's fault. Does this also mean Microsoft is at fault when someone writes malware that exploits Chrome on Windows? After all it’s the Windows platform and API. Should I also blame RMS when someone writes malware in C? After all they might have used the libc.
    - simion314 5y ago
      >Does this also mean Microsoft is at fault when someone writes malware that exploits Chrome on Windows? After all it’s the Windows platform and API. Should I also blame RMS when someone writes malware in C? After all they might have used the libc. Say someone put malware on Ubuntu or Debian official repos, the developers find it and silently cleanup the mess but keep it quiet because of PR. Who should notify the victims> the package maintainer, the individuals responsible for the malware, the distribution as a whole? If the Microsoft Store or Steam distributed malware, even if they I expect from them to aknowledge what happened, plans to improve the situation and the victims should recieve an email or notification in the store with what happened,and what should they do. I am not asking for Apple to get the blame for the malware , just to acknowledge that the Store is not 100% safe and this can happen (bad for PR) and let the victims know.

pornel 5y ago

Apple is in charge when it benefits them, and devs are in charge when there's a liability.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

gpm 5y ago

I'm not sure any particular law like that applies to Apple, but I would actually be somewhat surprised if they didn't. You bought an Apple device, used it to access Apple's servers, which pointed you at software hosted on Apple's servers, which you proceeded to download from Apple's servers, if it was non-free software you paid Apple for it, and Apple has final approval over any software that is actually distributed to consumers. Edit: And if you were infected via way of an update, the update mechanism is Apple's software asked Apple's servers if there was any updates, and when Apple's servers said yes they downloaded software from Apple's servers and deployed it on your phone. To argue by analogy, Amazon is responsible for goods they sell on there store that they don't even distribute themselves... https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/1/22414185/california-appeals-court-amazon-marketplace-responsible-third-party-hoverboard https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/1/22414185/california-appeal...

simondotau 5y ago
So if a criminal sneaks into a Campbells soup factory and poisons a batch of tomato soup, the proper response should be to blame Walmart for selling it. Impeccable logic.
- gpm 5y ago
  "Blame", no. Require that Walmart issues a recall, alerts the purchasers of the defective soup, and issues refunds, yes, that is how the law works. Walmart in turn can go after Campbell for the cost of the refunds, but the end purchasers aren't a party to that suit. Campbell (and maybe Walmart directly) can also go after the criminal for damages, again not the consumers problem.
  - simondotau 5y ago
    Apple did all the things you described in the first paragraph.
    - gpm 5y ago
      On the contrary, the complaint is that they did not. They specifically chose not to alert those affected. But also... you do understand that we're talking about analogous but not identical laws here right? The context of this entire thread is laws that specifically require notifying people of data breaches, and not laws that require recalling bad food.