5 ms·

"that’s what we do — we tell people whether their item is fake or authentic. Not authentication as in login authentication" Should've made it clearer - a mista

"that’s what we do — we tell people whether their item is fake or authentic. Not authentication as in login authentication" Should've made it clearer - a mistake on my part. So you know how there are fakes of Rolex, Nike, Louis Vuitton etc — some are scarily close. We make guides on how to tell the fake from the real item, with the best fakes. We teach people (for free) But we also have a service, if they want us to check it for them

wheybags 5y ago
Your blog post is a bit incomprehensible tbh. I did get it eventually, but I got a good bit into the article before I did. #1 issue for me is you say "writing order notes", and that doesn't make sense at all to me. "verifying whether products are fake or legitimate" would be a much better article title.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- mtalantikite 5y ago
  Yeah I had no idea what this was about and had to Google “Order Notes”, which also didn’t turn up much. Bailed on the article pretty quickly since I didn’t understand anything, assuming I wasn’t the target audience.
  - chdaniel 5y ago
    Hmm, okay. Too much in my own bubble with that notion then The 'order notes' is a field in any e-commerce store, where you (the store) can send the customer a message Think: "your order has been shipped" But we write it manually — "your item is authentic because X and Y" — that's our order note. And at the same time our service What I tried to do with the title was show the scrappiness. Maybe even inspire some hackers to be scrappy or to look for something other than perfection first Because if you're pitching to a VC that you're starting an authentication company for luxury items And you'll claim that you'll use the WooCommerce 'order notes' section, you'd be laughed out of the room. And not like the Airbnb founders — without that second part of the story where you prove them wrong
    - mtalantikite 5y ago
      I think the word “authenticity” is something that expresses what it is your team does that more people would understand. I think most people know what a certificate of authenticity is and it sounds like your service provides a digital, saas version of that.
- the_local_host 5y ago
  Even after understanding that the service is about distinguishing fake from legitimate products, I still don't know what an "order note" is.
  - chdaniel 5y ago
    Hmm, okay. Too much in my own bubble with that notion then The 'order notes' is a field in any e-commerce store, where you (the store) can send the customer a message Think: "your order has been shipped" But we write it manually — "your item is authentic because X and Y" — that's our order note. And at the same time our service What I tried to do with the title was show the scrappiness. Maybe even inspire some hackers to be scrappy or to look for something other than perfection first Because if you're pitching to a VC that you're starting an authentication company for luxury items And you'll claim that you'll use the WooCommerce 'order notes' section, you'd be laughed out of the room. And not like the Airbnb founders — without that second part of the story where you prove them wrong
    - bobsmooth 5y ago
      Keep in mind the usual type of person that is here on HN. I was able to gleam what you are doing and how you are doing it the moment I started reading the first order note.
- chdaniel 5y ago
  Hmm, okay. Too much in my own bubble with that notion then The 'order notes' is a field in any e-commerce store, where you (the store) can send the customer a message Think: "your order has been shipped" But we write it manually — "your item is authentic because X and Y" — that's our order note. And at the same time our service What I tried to do with the title was show the scrappiness. Maybe even inspire some hackers to be scrappy or to look for something other than perfection first Because if you're pitching to a VC that you're starting an authentication company for luxury items And you'll claim that you'll use the WooCommerce 'order notes' section, you'd be laughed out of the room. And not like the Airbnb founders — without that second part of the story where you prove them wrong
leeoniya 5y ago
i've always wondered how this works, on antiques roadshow, etc. can't the manufacturers of the fakes simply take the course, learn the subtlties, and make better fakes?
- dv_dt 5y ago
  I would like to think that as the quality of the work improves, it makes more and more sense to establish your own brand instead of duplicating the work of another entity. Of course it all breaks down if the faked brands aren’t making all that high a quality items.
- 83457 5y ago
  Diminishing returns on perfection.
- dpritchett 5y ago
  Presumably the perfect fake often costs too much to reliably manufacture. Think of the randomness inherent in the microscopically unique features of the original and how you might emulate them reliably with a margin that still lets you compete with its luxury pricing.
NationalPark 5y ago
Have you noticed anyone using your guides to make fakes targeted to fool your authentication? Do you keep a few clues secret just to be sure?
- chdaniel 5y ago
  > Do you keep a few clues secret just to be sure? Not really. We give away everything we have. As others've mentioned, fake manufcaturers get diminishing results by spending the extra $$$ to go from 95% to 99% Whe anyway, as part of 95%, the exterior side is 99% done. The last 5 bits are interior details unseen by anyone but the wearer All they care about is selling more products to fake wearers. And fake wearers care only about exterior
MereInterest 5y ago
My understanding is that some of the "fakes" for high-end fashion are due to multiple factories building products to the same specifications, but only the first one to deliver them gets paid. The others are still built to the exact same specification, and are functionally identical except for the logo. Is my understanding correct, and does your service distinguish between "fake because it isn't officially blessed" and "fake because it uses inferior construction"? I tend to see the following categories overall, and while I'm not at all interested in the label/authenticity side of things, I have a difficult time identifying well-constructed or poorly-constructed household items. * Real label, high quality. Good to have, but much more expensive than I can usually justify. * Real label, low quality. Typically when a brand has just been bought out, and is trying to cash in on a reputation while using cheaper construction. * Fake/knock-off label, low quality. Trash, masquerading as a good deal. * Fake/knock-off label, high quality. The absolute sweet spot, getting the higher quality build without needing to pay for the social "authenticity" of the brand label.
- hattmall 5y ago
  It's more like this: A company contracts with a factory, they want 100,000 pair of shoes. The factory however is going to make a million or keep making it until there's no one to buy it. These are called "ghost shift" goods which is the bulk of counterfeits. If the product is not a limited run and still being produced the quality will be exactly the same. If the original manufacturer is no longer purchasing then the factory will very likely use cheaper materials. The brands know this happens, they really don't care, what the brand will do is send a couple workers to the factory to be QC buyers. The factory makes a million items, and the QC workers will go through and pick out the best 100,000. The other 900,000 will be sold in the the developing world. The brand will typically take the 100,000 then send them to the US or Europe to another factory where they will have tags sewn in them and possibly some more labels or insignia attached. If it's a particularly premium brand they will add some secret identifying marks that even this LegitCheck website is unlikely to know about. Those secret marks are typically for extremely high end goods that have lifetime warranties etc and the only time it's checked is if you send it in for warranty work. A LOT of these goods are completely indistinguishable and will even make it into the retail supply chain. Particularly at stores like TJ Maxx, Bealls, and Ross et al. Though they go through a series of distributors that will basically only exist for a few shipments to avoid liability after some previous large lawsuits. Ross and Burlington will also knowingly buy the ghost shift goods but keep them unbranded and sell them in stores with no labeling at all. You can find these clothes and they will have a tag sewn into that has a lot number. You can take that lot number and put it in to import manifest search engines and find out what brand was also importing them. This would be where you find your coveted Fake / Knock off high quality with the best success.
roofwellhams 5y ago
But maybe you could explain the whole use case. I doubt sometime that bought a pair of air max will pay you 60usd to say it's not authentic. Then I guess they will copy your message to their paypal claim? PayPal sides with buyer like 90% of the time anyway..

wheybags 5y ago

Your blog post is a bit incomprehensible tbh. I did get it eventually, but I got a good bit into the article before I did. #1 issue for me is you say "writing order notes", and that doesn't make sense at all to me. "verifying whether products are fake or legitimate" would be a much better article title.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mtalantikite 5y ago
Yeah I had no idea what this was about and had to Google “Order Notes”, which also didn’t turn up much. Bailed on the article pretty quickly since I didn’t understand anything, assuming I wasn’t the target audience.
- chdaniel 5y ago
  Hmm, okay. Too much in my own bubble with that notion then The 'order notes' is a field in any e-commerce store, where you (the store) can send the customer a message Think: "your order has been shipped" But we write it manually — "your item is authentic because X and Y" — that's our order note. And at the same time our service What I tried to do with the title was show the scrappiness. Maybe even inspire some hackers to be scrappy or to look for something other than perfection first Because if you're pitching to a VC that you're starting an authentication company for luxury items And you'll claim that you'll use the WooCommerce 'order notes' section, you'd be laughed out of the room. And not like the Airbnb founders — without that second part of the story where you prove them wrong
  - mtalantikite 5y ago
    I think the word “authenticity” is something that expresses what it is your team does that more people would understand. I think most people know what a certificate of authenticity is and it sounds like your service provides a digital, saas version of that.
the_local_host 5y ago
Even after understanding that the service is about distinguishing fake from legitimate products, I still don't know what an "order note" is.
- chdaniel 5y ago
  Hmm, okay. Too much in my own bubble with that notion then The 'order notes' is a field in any e-commerce store, where you (the store) can send the customer a message Think: "your order has been shipped" But we write it manually — "your item is authentic because X and Y" — that's our order note. And at the same time our service What I tried to do with the title was show the scrappiness. Maybe even inspire some hackers to be scrappy or to look for something other than perfection first Because if you're pitching to a VC that you're starting an authentication company for luxury items And you'll claim that you'll use the WooCommerce 'order notes' section, you'd be laughed out of the room. And not like the Airbnb founders — without that second part of the story where you prove them wrong
  - bobsmooth 5y ago
    Keep in mind the usual type of person that is here on HN. I was able to gleam what you are doing and how you are doing it the moment I started reading the first order note.
chdaniel 5y ago
Hmm, okay. Too much in my own bubble with that notion then The 'order notes' is a field in any e-commerce store, where you (the store) can send the customer a message Think: "your order has been shipped" But we write it manually — "your item is authentic because X and Y" — that's our order note. And at the same time our service What I tried to do with the title was show the scrappiness. Maybe even inspire some hackers to be scrappy or to look for something other than perfection first Because if you're pitching to a VC that you're starting an authentication company for luxury items And you'll claim that you'll use the WooCommerce 'order notes' section, you'd be laughed out of the room. And not like the Airbnb founders — without that second part of the story where you prove them wrong

leeoniya 5y ago

i've always wondered how this works, on antiques roadshow, etc. can't the manufacturers of the fakes simply take the course, learn the subtlties, and make better fakes?

dv_dt 5y ago
I would like to think that as the quality of the work improves, it makes more and more sense to establish your own brand instead of duplicating the work of another entity. Of course it all breaks down if the faked brands aren’t making all that high a quality items.
83457 5y ago
Diminishing returns on perfection.
dpritchett 5y ago
Presumably the perfect fake often costs too much to reliably manufacture. Think of the randomness inherent in the microscopically unique features of the original and how you might emulate them reliably with a margin that still lets you compete with its luxury pricing.

NationalPark 5y ago

Have you noticed anyone using your guides to make fakes targeted to fool your authentication? Do you keep a few clues secret just to be sure?

chdaniel 5y ago
> Do you keep a few clues secret just to be sure? Not really. We give away everything we have. As others've mentioned, fake manufcaturers get diminishing results by spending the extra $$$ to go from 95% to 99% Whe anyway, as part of 95%, the exterior side is 99% done. The last 5 bits are interior details unseen by anyone but the wearer All they care about is selling more products to fake wearers. And fake wearers care only about exterior

MereInterest 5y ago

My understanding is that some of the "fakes" for high-end fashion are due to multiple factories building products to the same specifications, but only the first one to deliver them gets paid. The others are still built to the exact same specification, and are functionally identical except for the logo. Is my understanding correct, and does your service distinguish between "fake because it isn't officially blessed" and "fake because it uses inferior construction"? I tend to see the following categories overall, and while I'm not at all interested in the label/authenticity side of things, I have a difficult time identifying well-constructed or poorly-constructed household items. * Real label, high quality. Good to have, but much more expensive than I can usually justify. * Real label, low quality. Typically when a brand has just been bought out, and is trying to cash in on a reputation while using cheaper construction. * Fake/knock-off label, low quality. Trash, masquerading as a good deal. * Fake/knock-off label, high quality. The absolute sweet spot, getting the higher quality build without needing to pay for the social "authenticity" of the brand label.

hattmall 5y ago
It's more like this: A company contracts with a factory, they want 100,000 pair of shoes. The factory however is going to make a million or keep making it until there's no one to buy it. These are called "ghost shift" goods which is the bulk of counterfeits. If the product is not a limited run and still being produced the quality will be exactly the same. If the original manufacturer is no longer purchasing then the factory will very likely use cheaper materials. The brands know this happens, they really don't care, what the brand will do is send a couple workers to the factory to be QC buyers. The factory makes a million items, and the QC workers will go through and pick out the best 100,000. The other 900,000 will be sold in the the developing world. The brand will typically take the 100,000 then send them to the US or Europe to another factory where they will have tags sewn in them and possibly some more labels or insignia attached. If it's a particularly premium brand they will add some secret identifying marks that even this LegitCheck website is unlikely to know about. Those secret marks are typically for extremely high end goods that have lifetime warranties etc and the only time it's checked is if you send it in for warranty work. A LOT of these goods are completely indistinguishable and will even make it into the retail supply chain. Particularly at stores like TJ Maxx, Bealls, and Ross et al. Though they go through a series of distributors that will basically only exist for a few shipments to avoid liability after some previous large lawsuits. Ross and Burlington will also knowingly buy the ghost shift goods but keep them unbranded and sell them in stores with no labeling at all. You can find these clothes and they will have a tag sewn into that has a lot number. You can take that lot number and put it in to import manifest search engines and find out what brand was also importing them. This would be where you find your coveted Fake / Knock off high quality with the best success.

roofwellhams 5y ago

But maybe you could explain the whole use case. I doubt sometime that bought a pair of air max will pay you 60usd to say it's not authentic. Then I guess they will copy your message to their paypal claim? PayPal sides with buyer like 90% of the time anyway..