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Hm I don't quite agree but it could be that the scenes are different in different places. It could also be that our definitions of EDM differ. I might also be m

by ehnto 6y ago

Hm I don't quite agree but it could be that the scenes are different in different places. It could also be that our definitions of EDM differ. I might also be missing something so take my comment as just my perspective from where I stand. I think there is a split between commercialized EDM and "real" EDM. The true culture and heritage of house and techno definitely live on in the greater electronic music scene in general, especially online and in clubs. I call that scene EDM because it is easier than trying list all the dozens of subgenres it has grown to include, and commercialised EDM used to be referred to as Top40 during the late 2000s, as a way to differentiate it from the "real" EDM scene. Not sure if that term lives on. It is usually pretty easy to tell when a song exists in the commercial realm. House is unique in that it has had more than one era of commercial success, but I think there has always been a delineation between commercialised house (stuff on the radio and in adverts) and the culture of house music (in the clubs and mixes)

dijksterhuis 6y ago
> I think there is a split between commercialized EDM and "real" EDM. This could be a locale thing, but in the UK what you call "real" EDM is often known as the underground electronic music scene (at least in my circles). I.e. the long tail of folks pissing about with machines in their bedroom. Note the lack of "dance" as not all underground electronic music needs to be danced to. Autechre is a good example of this. In the UK at least, EDM as a whole is often viewed as a commercialisation that started over in the USA (e.g. with Skrillex) and spread. What the EDM term generally refers to has changed over the years, and is now closer to "pop trance with super saw synths EVERYWHERE" these days. So, at least for us Brits, it's a catch all term for a specific type of electronic music (and most of the time a disparaging term). I think we mostly agree on the differing content, and in disagreeing with the parent, but it's the general "lumping in" with the same terminology that is often protested by the underground folks over here. Personally, I would hate for my tracks to be called EDM (I'd rather stab myself repeatedly in the eye with a spoon). Disclaimer: I'm just one UK dude who has spent a lot of time around electronic music. Other UK residents may have other opinions or nomenclature that they prefer to use.
- ehnto 6y ago
  That's really interesting, this thread is definitely telling me I am out of the loop anyway, as it seems that difference in understanding has even morphed over time. It doesn't surprise me at all though, there's still disputes about what "real" Bossa nova is to this day so that a genre as broad and eclectic as electronic music has a blurry cultural lexicon isn't all that shocking. I agree regarding EDM being a bit of a misnomer, I had always thought it was a weird term to use for everything. Another specific sub-genre in electronic music is IDM, Intelligent Dance Music, which occasionally doesn't even have a stable time signature, so it's not alone in that!
  - dijksterhuis 6y ago
    I wouldn't say you're out of the loop. Generally speaking I think you're right in what you're saying (commercial vs. underground). Ultimately it's just a label that people can apply to certain things to lump stuff into a category for them to conceptualise what "thing in category" is. In the UK (at least in my experience), we had an existing label to call this "thing". Then Skrillex, Steve Aoki etc happened and everyone tried to tell us it was called something different (EDM). We were like, no. Piss off. It's not that. What you're doing is not what we're doing. And it's sort of stuck as this "definitely not what we're doing" labelling category. Tomato, tomaaato. -- IDM is an awful term. And I say that as someone who buys a lot of IDM. My friend has a different (arguably better) name for it: "hurty brain music".
    - jolux 6y ago
      I believe Aphex Twin's label Rephlex called it braindance originally. I've always liked their description: "braindance is the genre that encompasses the best elements of all genres, e.g traditional, classical, electronic music, popular, modern, industrial, ambient, hip hop, electro, house, techno, breakbeat, hardcore, ragga, garage, drum and bass, etc."
      - mrob 6y ago
        IDM first gained mainstream attention with the Warp records compilation album "Artificial Intelligence", which called it "electronic listening music." It's a pity this name never caught on, because it's more accurate than IDM. Wikipedia quotes Warp co-founder Steve Beckett: "You could sit down and listen to it like you would a Kraftwerk or Pink Floyd album. That's why we put those sleeves on the cover of Artificial Intelligence – to get it into people's minds that you weren't supposed to dance to it!" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_Intelligence_(compilation_album) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_Intelligence_(compi...

by ehnto 6y ago

dijksterhuis 6y ago

> I think there is a split between commercialized EDM and "real" EDM. This could be a locale thing, but in the UK what you call "real" EDM is often known as the underground electronic music scene (at least in my circles). I.e. the long tail of folks pissing about with machines in their bedroom. Note the lack of "dance" as not all underground electronic music needs to be danced to. Autechre is a good example of this. In the UK at least, EDM as a whole is often viewed as a commercialisation that started over in the USA (e.g. with Skrillex) and spread. What the EDM term generally refers to has changed over the years, and is now closer to "pop trance with super saw synths EVERYWHERE" these days. So, at least for us Brits, it's a catch all term for a specific type of electronic music (and most of the time a disparaging term). I think we mostly agree on the differing content, and in disagreeing with the parent, but it's the general "lumping in" with the same terminology that is often protested by the underground folks over here. Personally, I would hate for my tracks to be called EDM (I'd rather stab myself repeatedly in the eye with a spoon). Disclaimer: I'm just one UK dude who has spent a lot of time around electronic music. Other UK residents may have other opinions or nomenclature that they prefer to use.

ehnto 6y ago
That's really interesting, this thread is definitely telling me I am out of the loop anyway, as it seems that difference in understanding has even morphed over time. It doesn't surprise me at all though, there's still disputes about what "real" Bossa nova is to this day so that a genre as broad and eclectic as electronic music has a blurry cultural lexicon isn't all that shocking. I agree regarding EDM being a bit of a misnomer, I had always thought it was a weird term to use for everything. Another specific sub-genre in electronic music is IDM, Intelligent Dance Music, which occasionally doesn't even have a stable time signature, so it's not alone in that!
- dijksterhuis 6y ago
  I wouldn't say you're out of the loop. Generally speaking I think you're right in what you're saying (commercial vs. underground). Ultimately it's just a label that people can apply to certain things to lump stuff into a category for them to conceptualise what "thing in category" is. In the UK (at least in my experience), we had an existing label to call this "thing". Then Skrillex, Steve Aoki etc happened and everyone tried to tell us it was called something different (EDM). We were like, no. Piss off. It's not that. What you're doing is not what we're doing. And it's sort of stuck as this "definitely not what we're doing" labelling category. Tomato, tomaaato. -- IDM is an awful term. And I say that as someone who buys a lot of IDM. My friend has a different (arguably better) name for it: "hurty brain music".
  - jolux 6y ago
    I believe Aphex Twin's label Rephlex called it braindance originally. I've always liked their description: "braindance is the genre that encompasses the best elements of all genres, e.g traditional, classical, electronic music, popular, modern, industrial, ambient, hip hop, electro, house, techno, breakbeat, hardcore, ragga, garage, drum and bass, etc."
    - mrob 6y ago
      IDM first gained mainstream attention with the Warp records compilation album "Artificial Intelligence", which called it "electronic listening music." It's a pity this name never caught on, because it's more accurate than IDM. Wikipedia quotes Warp co-founder Steve Beckett: "You could sit down and listen to it like you would a Kraftwerk or Pink Floyd album. That's why we put those sleeves on the cover of Artificial Intelligence – to get it into people's minds that you weren't supposed to dance to it!" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_Intelligence_(compilation_album) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_Intelligence_(compi...