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Another weird example is how Apple's own "Clips" app has a special private entitlement that bypasses the permission prompt for camera access. Would it hurt the

by 0x0 5y ago

Another weird example is how Apple's own "Clips" app has a special private entitlement that bypasses the permission prompt for camera access. Would it hurt them so much to prompt for camera access the first time the app is started after installing it from the app store? I found that extremely worrying as it means I can no longer trust the app store to provide a safe sandboxed environment. Suddenly there's an app with this special no-cam-permission entitlement and your mugshot is uploaded when you believed the ios camera permission system would have protected you. Oh, but Apple would only ever grant that permission to its own apps? Better hope we'll never get a repeat of the PsychicPaper exploit!

mrtksn 5y ago
I had to check that app and wow, what an amazing video editor. Apparently it's a prosumer level app with quite a bit of power and depth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI8SWCUWMDY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI8SWCUWMDY However I agree that it's strange not asking for camera permissions. The app itself can be used with no camera. It's also strange because even apple's own watch app that tracks your hand washing habits keeps asking for permission to track your location. Every now and then you will be reminded that hand washing reminder app tracks your location.
machello13 5y ago
I guarantee you the product manager for Clips probably just made a lot of noise about trying to reduce onboarding friction as much as possible, and their manager talked to someone else's manager and got that entitlement. I agree it's bad optics, but on the other hand I'm not sure there's a practical difference between the Camera app having this entitlement, and Clips having this entitlement. Both are made and distributed by Apple, regardless of the method of installation.
- erikpukinskis 5y ago
  Camera app should ask too.
  - machello13 5y ago
    Why? Apple makes everything from the hardware up to the apps on the homescreen. Why do you trust the hardware, the kernel, and the OS, but not the "apps", when all are made by the same organization? They're the same as any other software on the device, they just have an icon associated with them.
    - 0x0 5y ago
      Because the mere fact that an entitlement for bypassing permission prompts exists, means that non-apple apps could try to exploit it (see for example the PsychicPaper exploit). Designing in such a huge hole in the permission system just makes it that much more difficult to trust it.
    - Grustaf 5y ago
      Yeah, it's pretty pointless for first party apps to ask for permission, since Apple already have access to anything they want.
      - jorvi 5y ago
        Its not about the technical reason, it's about optics. You pre-approve system apps location access during iOS first setup, but you do not for camera access. Basically, all privacy toggles should be opt-in, not opt-out, even for system apps, even though Apple could easily bypass that for their own apps.
        Grustaf 5y ago
        Why? People explicitly trust Apple with their most sensitive data. Asking for permission for specific apps makes no sense. I don’t personally care about “level playing fields” but even if I did, I wouldn’t expect or want it to include the first party.
        asaddhamani 5y ago
        On Android I’ve seen even Google apps ask for camera permissions, I’m making a choice about whether I want this specific app to have access to my camera, whether it comes from Apple or any other developer doesn’t matter. I should be able to disable the camera access for any app including the built-in camera app.

by 0x0 5y ago

mrtksn 5y ago

I had to check that app and wow, what an amazing video editor. Apparently it's a prosumer level app with quite a bit of power and depth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI8SWCUWMDY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI8SWCUWMDY However I agree that it's strange not asking for camera permissions. The app itself can be used with no camera. It's also strange because even apple's own watch app that tracks your hand washing habits keeps asking for permission to track your location. Every now and then you will be reminded that hand washing reminder app tracks your location.

machello13 5y ago

I guarantee you the product manager for Clips probably just made a lot of noise about trying to reduce onboarding friction as much as possible, and their manager talked to someone else's manager and got that entitlement. I agree it's bad optics, but on the other hand I'm not sure there's a practical difference between the Camera app having this entitlement, and Clips having this entitlement. Both are made and distributed by Apple, regardless of the method of installation.

erikpukinskis 5y ago
Camera app should ask too.
- machello13 5y ago
  Why? Apple makes everything from the hardware up to the apps on the homescreen. Why do you trust the hardware, the kernel, and the OS, but not the "apps", when all are made by the same organization? They're the same as any other software on the device, they just have an icon associated with them.
  - 0x0 5y ago
    Because the mere fact that an entitlement for bypassing permission prompts exists, means that non-apple apps could try to exploit it (see for example the PsychicPaper exploit). Designing in such a huge hole in the permission system just makes it that much more difficult to trust it.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    Yeah, it's pretty pointless for first party apps to ask for permission, since Apple already have access to anything they want.
    - jorvi 5y ago
      Its not about the technical reason, it's about optics. You pre-approve system apps location access during iOS first setup, but you do not for camera access. Basically, all privacy toggles should be opt-in, not opt-out, even for system apps, even though Apple could easily bypass that for their own apps.
      - Grustaf 5y ago
        Why? People explicitly trust Apple with their most sensitive data. Asking for permission for specific apps makes no sense. I don’t personally care about “level playing fields” but even if I did, I wouldn’t expect or want it to include the first party.
        asaddhamani 5y ago
        On Android I’ve seen even Google apps ask for camera permissions, I’m making a choice about whether I want this specific app to have access to my camera, whether it comes from Apple or any other developer doesn’t matter. I should be able to disable the camera access for any app including the built-in camera app.