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> those of us who have children leave behind much more than stone walls we built in our 20s Ah, yes. A planet completely ruined by overpopulation. That is your

by Aaargh20318 5y ago

> those of us who have children leave behind much more than stone walls we built in our 20s Ah, yes. A planet completely ruined by overpopulation. That is your legacy. Also, your existence is just as meaningless as this farmer's. You probably remember your grandparents, at least you know a little about their lives. What about your grandparents parents, or your grandparents grandparents. They were people with their own full lives, hopes and dreams. Do you even know their names ? Let alone what they were like, what they cared about, what their life was like ? They are forgotten, just like you will be, regardless of how many children they had.

layer8 5y ago
Also, after a couple generations the ancestors become so many that the "legacy" contribution from a given ancestor to a given descendant becomes statistically negligible.
- tirant 5y ago
  If that would be true, we would all be living in stone age.
tirant 5y ago
It saddens me to read such nihilistic comments here. Specially based on such clichés. Under which metric is the planet complete ruined? and why do you think it's overpopulated? what's then the maximum number of people that should live on this planet according to you, and based on what? Under lots of metrics, today's planet is a much healthier and prosperous place to live for humankind than it was 100 or even 50 years ago. As an example, for most human history life expectancy was no more than 30 years. Nowadays we are around 70 and quite some countries already over 80. Poverty was common some centuries ago, with around 90% being considered poor. Nowadays it's only around 10% of population. Literacy has also advanced tremendously, with now around 90% of people under 25 being able to read and write. And all of that has been happening thanks to those that were here before us. Yes, the ones we have forgotten their names, but for whom we live now in the capable and free societies that are most of the western countries. Having children is an extremely important part of that legacy. They are the immediate inheritors of the ideals and visions of the ones that were here before us.
- II2II 5y ago
  > Under lots of metrics, today's planet is a much healthier and prosperous place to live for humankind than it was 100 or even 50 years ago. We have created healthier and more prosperous societies. It is difficult to argue that we have created a healthier planet, yet our long term survival depends upon the health of the planet.
- kaladin_1 5y ago
  I so much appreciate your point of view! I don't understand those nihilist statements as well. Looks like Satre's smoke has permeated most minds. We are having this convo because someone had a child. If someone really thought and believed life isn't a great thing (equating a stone wall to a human being) he'd be either a dishonest person or a weakling to be alive educating us. For if he truly believes children and humans are all nothing, then, why toil in vain. Why procrastinate, why suffer at all for nothing. Why is it that the majority of the humans that live and has ever lived chose to toil and provide for their family? Why is it that many folks that has ever lived are happy to have kids and nurture them. Is it ignorance that has given our ancestors the joy they experienced in child bearing and nurturing? An "intellectual" that is enjoying the wealth of our ancestors turns to proclaim it all nothing because we cannot remember their names.
  - Aaargh20318 5y ago
    > For if he truly believes children and humans are all nothing, then, why toil in vain. Why procrastinate, why suffer at all for nothing. Because suicide is vastly different from never having been born at all. Like every animal people have an extremely strong survival instinct. So strong that people have to be under extreme physical or mental pain before they consider taking their own lives. This is not an argument for procreation but against it. It adds to the absolute horror that is life.
  - ageofwant 5y ago
    Gut ist der Schlaf, der Tod ist besser - freilich Das beste wäre, nie geboren sein. Sleep is good. Death is better, but the best is to have never been born. Heinrich Heine 1797-1856 Morphine 1835-1836 http://www.vhemt.org/philrel.htm#antinatalism http://www.vhemt.org/philrel.htm#antinatalism
mensetmanusman 5y ago
If you truly internalized your belief that this is all meaningless, rationally you wouldn’t care if the planet was ruined.

layer8 5y ago

Also, after a couple generations the ancestors become so many that the "legacy" contribution from a given ancestor to a given descendant becomes statistically negligible.

tirant 5y ago
If that would be true, we would all be living in stone age.

tirant 5y ago

It saddens me to read such nihilistic comments here. Specially based on such clichés. Under which metric is the planet complete ruined? and why do you think it's overpopulated? what's then the maximum number of people that should live on this planet according to you, and based on what? Under lots of metrics, today's planet is a much healthier and prosperous place to live for humankind than it was 100 or even 50 years ago. As an example, for most human history life expectancy was no more than 30 years. Nowadays we are around 70 and quite some countries already over 80. Poverty was common some centuries ago, with around 90% being considered poor. Nowadays it's only around 10% of population. Literacy has also advanced tremendously, with now around 90% of people under 25 being able to read and write. And all of that has been happening thanks to those that were here before us. Yes, the ones we have forgotten their names, but for whom we live now in the capable and free societies that are most of the western countries. Having children is an extremely important part of that legacy. They are the immediate inheritors of the ideals and visions of the ones that were here before us.

II2II 5y ago
> Under lots of metrics, today's planet is a much healthier and prosperous place to live for humankind than it was 100 or even 50 years ago. We have created healthier and more prosperous societies. It is difficult to argue that we have created a healthier planet, yet our long term survival depends upon the health of the planet.
kaladin_1 5y ago
I so much appreciate your point of view! I don't understand those nihilist statements as well. Looks like Satre's smoke has permeated most minds. We are having this convo because someone had a child. If someone really thought and believed life isn't a great thing (equating a stone wall to a human being) he'd be either a dishonest person or a weakling to be alive educating us. For if he truly believes children and humans are all nothing, then, why toil in vain. Why procrastinate, why suffer at all for nothing. Why is it that the majority of the humans that live and has ever lived chose to toil and provide for their family? Why is it that many folks that has ever lived are happy to have kids and nurture them. Is it ignorance that has given our ancestors the joy they experienced in child bearing and nurturing? An "intellectual" that is enjoying the wealth of our ancestors turns to proclaim it all nothing because we cannot remember their names.
- Aaargh20318 5y ago
  > For if he truly believes children and humans are all nothing, then, why toil in vain. Why procrastinate, why suffer at all for nothing. Because suicide is vastly different from never having been born at all. Like every animal people have an extremely strong survival instinct. So strong that people have to be under extreme physical or mental pain before they consider taking their own lives. This is not an argument for procreation but against it. It adds to the absolute horror that is life.
- ageofwant 5y ago
  Gut ist der Schlaf, der Tod ist besser - freilich Das beste wäre, nie geboren sein. Sleep is good. Death is better, but the best is to have never been born. Heinrich Heine 1797-1856 Morphine 1835-1836 http://www.vhemt.org/philrel.htm#antinatalism http://www.vhemt.org/philrel.htm#antinatalism

mensetmanusman 5y ago

If you truly internalized your belief that this is all meaningless, rationally you wouldn’t care if the planet was ruined.