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> I only keep it around to deal with people that haven't switched to Signal or Telegram yet Or dont. If it's important enough, they'll find a way to contact yo

> I only keep it around to deal with people that haven't switched to Signal or Telegram yet Or dont. If it's important enough, they'll find a way to contact you.

techsupporter 5y ago
To me, this is an example of why individual and collective action on gigantic things, like climate change or privacy, are both important. I salute everyone here who is able to switch away from WhatsApp. I wish I could dump it as well, but I can't. Why? I volunteer with a group where one of our main things is to have a small army of people out doing coordinated-but-physically-separated tasks. Everyone has a smartphone of some kind but they're of varying types and quality. We tried using group SMS but that was a disaster, as group-SMS is bad enough but group-SMS-with-30-people is one level below "just fax everybody." WhatsApp, meanwhile, lets us make daily groups, have a QR code that volunteers can scan at check in to join the day's group, app versions that work on the shittiest Android phone all the way up to the brand newest iPhone. And as a bonus, since almost all of our volunteers have friends and family outside the US, pretty much everybody already has Whatsapp installed and knows how to use it. The one time our Executive Director tried switching apps, I had to spend an hour talking him out of WeChat, of all things. Point being, we need individual action to pressure our friends and family groups along with regulatory action so that massive platforms can't abuse us like this.
- hiq 5y ago
  Was there anything specific that prevented you from switching to Signal?
  - techsupporter 5y ago
    At the time, joining groups in Signal was an involved process and the friction was higher than "a volunteer lead stands at the check-in desk and shows the QR code to each volunteer as they arrive for the day." Plus, most people didn't have Signal installed; almost everyone, and realistically the "almost" doesn't apply any more, has WhatsApp. Signal's new groups work much more akin to WhatsApp and maybe I can bring it back up again once the pandemic has fully subsided.
- mahnouel 5y ago
  Telegram might be worth a try. Also has the ability to join a group via Links (which also means QR Codes would work). There are a lot of options to manage groups, and even though it might not be as good as signal at encryption etc. it’s definitely better than WhatsApp
  - growse 5y ago
    Joining a group with a URL isn't unique to Telegram. Signal certainly supports it, and I think a few other platforms do too.
  - MertsA 5y ago
    >even though it might not be as good as signal at encryption etc. it’s definitely better than WhatsApp By default Telegram doesn't even do E2EE, you're 100% trusting them not to read your messages unless you start a secret chat. In what objective way could you consider Telegram to be technically more secure than WhatsApp?
    - skinkestek 5y ago
      > In what objective way could you consider Telegram to be technically more secure than WhatsApp? Firstly mahnouel didn't write "more secure" but better. Secondly: if backups are enabled WhatsApp at anyone of the group members then WhatsApp is automatically uploading unencrypted copies of the group chats to Google. I'd say that brings WhatsApp security for groups down to Telegram level at least. Thirdly: forcing others to use WhatsApp to be part of the group gives away their group affiliation to Facebook. This might or might not be a problem for you.
    - MomoXenosaga 5y ago
      Every app eventually turns evil. I'm too cynical to believe telegram or signal aren't going to cash in.
      - robjan 5y ago
        Signal has already implemented some cryptocurrency which the founder of the foundation has an unknown and undisclosed level of investment in.
DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
that's been my approach (meanwhile years ago). People never said it to my face but I'm pretty sure they thought I was strange. The only effect it had on me was missing out on spammy gossip group chats which filled my phone with memes and annoying notifications of people's micro-emotions that they felt I needed to somehow be part of. When I now meet these people IRL they seem often very happy for being able to break news to me. Not being in the loop added quality to my friendships and I'm also genuinely happy to meet somebody because "it's been ages". Have created the same rule with my partner some years ago and we do not text each other little updates during the day so that we can have "quality time" in the evening which we always look forward to. It felt weird at first because nobody else does this, but it helped us carving out "us time" in which there is always something interesting we can share (e.g. "delayed gratification"[1] is grossly underrated in our time) Most friends have meanwhile switched to Signal so I'm now more in the loop than 2 years ago. Though I never bring it with me when I leave the house so making an appointment with me and cancelling on last minute will be a problem (one I actively want to have - as strange at it sounds). Also I bring respect to any IRL conversations by _not_ having the chance fiddling with my phone. (I don't demand the same courtesy from my peers but I like tho think as of leading by example). So my mobile is a landline that uses radio :-) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_gratification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_gratification

> I only keep it around to deal with people that haven't switched to Signal or Telegram yet Or dont. If it's important enough, they'll find a way to contact you.

techsupporter 5y ago

To me, this is an example of why individual and collective action on gigantic things, like climate change or privacy, are both important. I salute everyone here who is able to switch away from WhatsApp. I wish I could dump it as well, but I can't. Why? I volunteer with a group where one of our main things is to have a small army of people out doing coordinated-but-physically-separated tasks. Everyone has a smartphone of some kind but they're of varying types and quality. We tried using group SMS but that was a disaster, as group-SMS is bad enough but group-SMS-with-30-people is one level below "just fax everybody." WhatsApp, meanwhile, lets us make daily groups, have a QR code that volunteers can scan at check in to join the day's group, app versions that work on the shittiest Android phone all the way up to the brand newest iPhone. And as a bonus, since almost all of our volunteers have friends and family outside the US, pretty much everybody already has Whatsapp installed and knows how to use it. The one time our Executive Director tried switching apps, I had to spend an hour talking him out of WeChat, of all things. Point being, we need individual action to pressure our friends and family groups along with regulatory action so that massive platforms can't abuse us like this.

hiq 5y ago
Was there anything specific that prevented you from switching to Signal?
- techsupporter 5y ago
  At the time, joining groups in Signal was an involved process and the friction was higher than "a volunteer lead stands at the check-in desk and shows the QR code to each volunteer as they arrive for the day." Plus, most people didn't have Signal installed; almost everyone, and realistically the "almost" doesn't apply any more, has WhatsApp. Signal's new groups work much more akin to WhatsApp and maybe I can bring it back up again once the pandemic has fully subsided.
mahnouel 5y ago
Telegram might be worth a try. Also has the ability to join a group via Links (which also means QR Codes would work). There are a lot of options to manage groups, and even though it might not be as good as signal at encryption etc. it’s definitely better than WhatsApp
- growse 5y ago
  Joining a group with a URL isn't unique to Telegram. Signal certainly supports it, and I think a few other platforms do too.
- MertsA 5y ago
  >even though it might not be as good as signal at encryption etc. it’s definitely better than WhatsApp By default Telegram doesn't even do E2EE, you're 100% trusting them not to read your messages unless you start a secret chat. In what objective way could you consider Telegram to be technically more secure than WhatsApp?
  - skinkestek 5y ago
    > In what objective way could you consider Telegram to be technically more secure than WhatsApp? Firstly mahnouel didn't write "more secure" but better. Secondly: if backups are enabled WhatsApp at anyone of the group members then WhatsApp is automatically uploading unencrypted copies of the group chats to Google. I'd say that brings WhatsApp security for groups down to Telegram level at least. Thirdly: forcing others to use WhatsApp to be part of the group gives away their group affiliation to Facebook. This might or might not be a problem for you.
  - MomoXenosaga 5y ago
    Every app eventually turns evil. I'm too cynical to believe telegram or signal aren't going to cash in.
    - robjan 5y ago
      Signal has already implemented some cryptocurrency which the founder of the foundation has an unknown and undisclosed level of investment in.

DyslexicAtheist 5y ago

that's been my approach (meanwhile years ago). People never said it to my face but I'm pretty sure they thought I was strange. The only effect it had on me was missing out on spammy gossip group chats which filled my phone with memes and annoying notifications of people's micro-emotions that they felt I needed to somehow be part of. When I now meet these people IRL they seem often very happy for being able to break news to me. Not being in the loop added quality to my friendships and I'm also genuinely happy to meet somebody because "it's been ages". Have created the same rule with my partner some years ago and we do not text each other little updates during the day so that we can have "quality time" in the evening which we always look forward to. It felt weird at first because nobody else does this, but it helped us carving out "us time" in which there is always something interesting we can share (e.g. "delayed gratification"[1] is grossly underrated in our time) Most friends have meanwhile switched to Signal so I'm now more in the loop than 2 years ago. Though I never bring it with me when I leave the house so making an appointment with me and cancelling on last minute will be a problem (one I actively want to have - as strange at it sounds). Also I bring respect to any IRL conversations by _not_ having the chance fiddling with my phone. (I don't demand the same courtesy from my peers but I like tho think as of leading by example). So my mobile is a landline that uses radio :-) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_gratification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_gratification