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Does it strike anyone else as oddly ironic that he is so sad that people don't go to the effort to hear the cuckoos, and yet he basically doesn't want to experi

Does it strike anyone else as oddly ironic that he is so sad that people don't go to the effort to hear the cuckoos, and yet he basically doesn't want to experience... well, pretty much everything. It's great he's happy with the life he has chosen. But I personally find people who are even slightly like that (i.e. closed off to new experiences) depressing to be around. My parents are kind of like that, and have been as long as I can remember. But to each their own.

cldellow 5y ago
I read that differently from you. I think he's sad because they _do_ go to the effort of hearing the cuckoos, but they're rushing. They're not fully present, and so they don't get the full experience. He, by contrast, is very present in the things he does. That he doesn't choose to do many things is a different topic.
- taneq 5y ago
  Is it different, though? Can you do things that deeply without limiting the number of things you’re doing?
  - riffraff 5y ago
    I believe there is probably a balance to be struck. I am from (near) Rome, and am familiar with the phenomenon of people visiting the city over a weekend, or even worse, on a day trip. That literally means you cannot experience the city, you can at most put some checkmarks on the 3 most popular sights. In a month you may spend a weekend in Paris, Madrid, Rome and London, but I believe it would be better to spend a few more days in only one of those. This is still different from, say, spending six months in a given city (which is what some people do to really experience it!). To each their own, some people do prefer broad & shallow to restricted & deep, but I think these days we do tend to over-emphasize the shallow side.
    - FalconSensei 5y ago
      Yeah, it's crazy. When I went to visit my cousins in Paris, I stayed for 19 days, and it was awesome. A friend said that 3 days was enough, and it would be nice to travel to a few other places too. Maybe enough for a quick glance at some tourist spots, but not to actually experience the city. I could have stayed for a whole month, or two, and would still be getting new experiences. As you mention, there's a good balance, and maybe 20 days could have been spent in 2 cities. But a weekend is very shallow
  - DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
    I think it is. There are people who experience time differently due to disabilities, who simply are like this[1], but I it's also possible when trying to make an effort: Meditation is meant to give this ability: Also the Japanese "ichigo ichie" living in the moment is based on the concept, and some people I know not just "practice" this but are incapable of multitasking - because they chose not to. Something can be gained by not stripping away boredom, but instead "savouring" the moment to see where it leads (essential for creativity). Then there is the idea of taking a cold shower as first thing in the morning to tell your subconscious to better not be to comfortable, and prepare "properly" for your day ahead (without "expectation" of comfort). Eating the same supper is a similar spirit and strips away the comfort and thinking that "one has an entitlement to something". See also the Stoic philosophy etc. ___ [1] this is a truly fantastic book if anyone was looking for an unsolicited recommendation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Discovery_of_Slowness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Discovery_of_Slowness from the wikipedia link: > "Slowness" — in German, "Langsamkeit" — had, before Nadolny's novel been primarily associated with mental retardation. In Nadolny's world, however, this seeming disability is in fact a powerful asset; the possessor of "slowness" can afford to wait, because he must wait. As a result, he attains victories unimaginable to the more "hurried" multitude. Nadolny's choice of a hero is apt in this regard; certainly the historical Sir John Franklin was never known for his mental alacrity, but beyond that, his "slowness" is more of a post-modern conceit. In a manner reminiscent of Roland Barthes' "autobiography" of Jules Michelet, Nadolny's Franklin is completely consistent with the known facts, all impeccably researched. Yet interwoven with the truth there is an entirely fictitious construction of Franklin as "slow," ranging from an imaginary ball-game in which the hapless John always arrives several seconds after the ball has departed to a fictitious re-creation of Franklin's efforts, at the height of Admiral Horatio Nelson's naval battles, to find and shoot a sniper from atop the masts of an enemy warship. By waiting, without panic, and carefully noting the angle at which the sniper's shots have been discharged, Franklin pinpoints his location and takes him down with a single shot.
  - raffraffraff 5y ago
    No, I don't think you can. But most people get enjoyment out of life without doing anything deeply. Sometimes you can look down your nose at them (eg people who get their science "facts" from Scientific American or /r/ifuckinglovescience and love to quote amazing bullshit at you). But sometimes it makes sense to take a shallow interest in things because, as you say, you can't go deep in everything, but that shouldn't stop you from singing badly, failing at some side project, gardening badly and doing high-effort low-quality DIY at the weekend. The contrast reminds me of a fad among 20-something's back in the 90s, spending a year "roughing it" on a grand tour of some third-world country. They'd come back with a tattoo, weighing 60kg, tanned and full of derision for "...your first world addiction to consumerism, man", and laughing at people who take their jobs seriously. Telling stories of dysentry, dangerous situations, psychedelics, corrupt police, bribing border guards, and living on pennies a day. "You get to see the real <wherever>". But while they certainly got closer to 'grit', they never really blended in with the locals for the same reason that they couldn't appreciate poverty. It was because they knew they had an exit strategy. They were fake, like Carla in Fight Club, going to terminal cancer support groups. Like the rich girl in Pulp's song, Common People, hanging out in a rough neighborhood, renting a flat above a shop, getting a shitty job and pretending she never went to school. But she never gets it right because she knows she can call her Daddy any time and he'll rescue her. And true enough, every man-Jack of those 20-something's had a car and a career within months of their return, and they're rightfully embarrassed about the enlightened crap they gave everyone when they first got back. Maybe a 2 week holiday to see the scenery is just as good after all?
Osmium 5y ago
I think you slightly misread the article. His sadness was for those people who wanted to hear the cuckoos (for example, birdwatchers) but could not because they were in a hurry, or did not have the patience or the time to listen.
tomc1985 5y ago
I think that most rich-country urbanites and suburbanites are spoiled for choice in things to experiences. It wasn't that long ago that most people hadn't traveled much further than the next town over, let alone another state or country. Logistics has gotten to the point where its practical to have most everything everywhere that lots of people are. Life before plenty was hard and boring by our standards. You can still see this in poorer, remote areas -- my experience is mainly with the American midwest and random foreign travel. There simply isn't much to do (or eat, or see), unless you're close to a big city.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
steve_adams_86 5y ago
To me it seems he’s saddened by knowing the beauty that they’ve missed out on for such trivial reasons of impatience and rushing through their lives.
- fastball 5y ago
  I mean, everybody ever is gonna miss out on the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of beauty this world has to offer. Even if you were immortal and could teleport you'd miss out on most of the beauty.
  - industriousthou 5y ago
    Yeah, but they took the time to go there for the experience and still missed out on it.
  - galangalalgol 5y ago
    I think maybe by trying to experience many things, those people end up having experienced nothing deeply? And his advice would be to pick one or two of those things and really dig in.
isoskeles 5y ago
I find them a bit less depressing than people frantically trying to experience "new" things as an effort to quiet the constant agitation of their souls.
- robbrown451 5y ago
  I don't think that the reason I've tried Chinese food is to quiet the agitation of my soul. Do you?
  - culturestate 5y ago
    I literally moved to China to try and find whatever I was missing at the time; a decade, four other countries, and countless adrenaline-seeking excursions later, some part of me is still searching. It may not apply to everyone, or even a majority of people who go out of their way for something new, but I know exactly what the parent comment means.
    - wombatmobile 5y ago
      > I know exactly what the parent comment means. Well, firstly, there was a misunderstanding in the parent comment, but ignoring that, I understand you are saying that you derive enjoyment from new experiences, which you have actively sought out for at least a decade, and don't enjoy the company of people who are not like that. But do you mean to say that you wouldn't enjoy meeting an old Welsh farmer who is not like anyone else you know? From what you've described about your interests and activities, I imagine you might enjoy the experience, at least for a while. From what you've said, you wouldn't want to be like him, but that's a different thing to the experience of meeting him, isn't it?
      - culturestate 5y ago
        No, it's nothing like that. I was referring to this... > people frantically trying to experience "new" things as an effort to quiet the constant agitation of their souls ...and pointing out that there are different kinds of, I guess, opportunistic openness. One is the normal, well-adjusted kind where you say sure, let's try some Chinese food or hey, I've never been to Wales, should we go to Cardiff this weekend? It's the Michael Palin version. The other, darker one - the one I had and which the grandparent was referring to - is the kind where you're constantly looking for the next thing or place or whatever that will make you feel content with life. It's not about experience for experience's sake, it's about trying to find something, anything, that will soothe your soul. This is the Anthony Bourdain version. It's not that I wouldn't want to go to Wales or meet the farmer; I would, of course. The difference is in the motivation and the satisfaction I would derive from it.
fma 5y ago
That's not what he's saying. He's saying that those who want to experience things...don't. People drive from far away probably just to stay there for a few seconds and call it a day, while sitting in their car. Probably take a selfie and say they were there to experience the cuckoos...but really didn't. That's why he's sad for them.
- birdyrooster 5y ago
  That’s not what he saying either. He’s saying that cuckoos don’t care if you watch them, because the sounds they make aren’t for those people who pass by. The cuckoos are for cuckoos and he is a sad one indeed.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Rapzid 5y ago
    > As told to Kiran Sidhu Who knows what he really said. Not us.
kwdc 5y ago
I got the sense he laments others lack of depth in what he has experienced, "They only stayed a moment and didn't see everything!". The irony is that others wonder about his lack of breadth of experience. "He hasn't explored enough and didn't see everything!" People are different.
graderjs 5y ago
Is his way better? Nah, it's just what he prefers. But he's smarter than them, because, he doesn't try stuff he's not committed to. He just keeps doing what he loves. But they try things, but don't commit to it, and so they miss out. His ROI is higher. He invests in 5 things, and they all pay off. The cuckoo "fly overs" make a bet on the cuckoo, but don't persist enough to see it pay off. We can definitely learn something from this guy, in our "ephemeral age". As Dang says about attention on HN: people give it their all, only the moderators do that, and that's what keeps the place from descending into madness. But everyone else can only give a part of their attention to HN. Fair enough, but you need some people giving it their all if you want HN to be good. Caveat is, he's probably great at narrating his solitary life and justifying his seclusion. We don't hear from him about all the stuff that isn't great. It's possible there's lots of that stuff, too :) ;p xx
oilostthelast 5y ago
You find noble, humble and virtuous souls depressing to be around? Look at this austere man, so capable. Entirely singular. Wholly content. How can you come to find even a hint of the vaguest ennui. Truly I envy the man, I aspire to be so contented, unfortunately I've decades of conditioning to unravel to attain such a saintly outlook. Imagine how simple and humane the world would be if it was populated with people like this. The man is wise. Would it be fair to assume you find such people "depressing" because they're resistant to your superficial intellectual rotundity? Because they don't play your games?
- Decker87 5y ago
  I can't tell if this is satire. If it is, bravo, well done.
  - oilostthelast 5y ago
    On the contrary, I'm deadly sincere. You'd do well to read up on the Roman views on agriculture. It was, perhaps, the most respected occupation. In any case, this constant goading of science, the excision of religion, the exorcising of divinity of the soul and the blatant machinations which analytical minds use to crush the working class into their finely cut time pieces are abominable. All for the sake of... What? There's nobody in this world that could convince me there is a meaningful direction which all of this unremittant locomotion trends; other than ruin that is. And that's despite a deep desire to find precisely that. We're sacrificing humanity for the vain and meagre rewards of the flesh and conditioned from birth to tow the line. This man seems to have entirely insulated himself from that, he renders his services seemingly for the sake of it. Lives, very apparently, with great modesty. He does this despite the social pressures to do otherwise, it is quite probable that he sacrificed romance to avoid the capricious intermingling of someone else, since few are contented without effecting their next step on the hedonic treadmill, their sisyphian burden. I respect and admire the man.
  - robbrown451 5y ago
    Haha, that's the impression I got as well. Alas, I think he/she is serious.

cldellow 5y ago

I read that differently from you. I think he's sad because they _do_ go to the effort of hearing the cuckoos, but they're rushing. They're not fully present, and so they don't get the full experience. He, by contrast, is very present in the things he does. That he doesn't choose to do many things is a different topic.

taneq 5y ago
Is it different, though? Can you do things that deeply without limiting the number of things you’re doing?
- riffraff 5y ago
  I believe there is probably a balance to be struck. I am from (near) Rome, and am familiar with the phenomenon of people visiting the city over a weekend, or even worse, on a day trip. That literally means you cannot experience the city, you can at most put some checkmarks on the 3 most popular sights. In a month you may spend a weekend in Paris, Madrid, Rome and London, but I believe it would be better to spend a few more days in only one of those. This is still different from, say, spending six months in a given city (which is what some people do to really experience it!). To each their own, some people do prefer broad & shallow to restricted & deep, but I think these days we do tend to over-emphasize the shallow side.
  - FalconSensei 5y ago
    Yeah, it's crazy. When I went to visit my cousins in Paris, I stayed for 19 days, and it was awesome. A friend said that 3 days was enough, and it would be nice to travel to a few other places too. Maybe enough for a quick glance at some tourist spots, but not to actually experience the city. I could have stayed for a whole month, or two, and would still be getting new experiences. As you mention, there's a good balance, and maybe 20 days could have been spent in 2 cities. But a weekend is very shallow
- DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
  I think it is. There are people who experience time differently due to disabilities, who simply are like this[1], but I it's also possible when trying to make an effort: Meditation is meant to give this ability: Also the Japanese "ichigo ichie" living in the moment is based on the concept, and some people I know not just "practice" this but are incapable of multitasking - because they chose not to. Something can be gained by not stripping away boredom, but instead "savouring" the moment to see where it leads (essential for creativity). Then there is the idea of taking a cold shower as first thing in the morning to tell your subconscious to better not be to comfortable, and prepare "properly" for your day ahead (without "expectation" of comfort). Eating the same supper is a similar spirit and strips away the comfort and thinking that "one has an entitlement to something". See also the Stoic philosophy etc. ___ [1] this is a truly fantastic book if anyone was looking for an unsolicited recommendation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Discovery_of_Slowness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Discovery_of_Slowness from the wikipedia link: > "Slowness" — in German, "Langsamkeit" — had, before Nadolny's novel been primarily associated with mental retardation. In Nadolny's world, however, this seeming disability is in fact a powerful asset; the possessor of "slowness" can afford to wait, because he must wait. As a result, he attains victories unimaginable to the more "hurried" multitude. Nadolny's choice of a hero is apt in this regard; certainly the historical Sir John Franklin was never known for his mental alacrity, but beyond that, his "slowness" is more of a post-modern conceit. In a manner reminiscent of Roland Barthes' "autobiography" of Jules Michelet, Nadolny's Franklin is completely consistent with the known facts, all impeccably researched. Yet interwoven with the truth there is an entirely fictitious construction of Franklin as "slow," ranging from an imaginary ball-game in which the hapless John always arrives several seconds after the ball has departed to a fictitious re-creation of Franklin's efforts, at the height of Admiral Horatio Nelson's naval battles, to find and shoot a sniper from atop the masts of an enemy warship. By waiting, without panic, and carefully noting the angle at which the sniper's shots have been discharged, Franklin pinpoints his location and takes him down with a single shot.
- raffraffraff 5y ago
  No, I don't think you can. But most people get enjoyment out of life without doing anything deeply. Sometimes you can look down your nose at them (eg people who get their science "facts" from Scientific American or /r/ifuckinglovescience and love to quote amazing bullshit at you). But sometimes it makes sense to take a shallow interest in things because, as you say, you can't go deep in everything, but that shouldn't stop you from singing badly, failing at some side project, gardening badly and doing high-effort low-quality DIY at the weekend. The contrast reminds me of a fad among 20-something's back in the 90s, spending a year "roughing it" on a grand tour of some third-world country. They'd come back with a tattoo, weighing 60kg, tanned and full of derision for "...your first world addiction to consumerism, man", and laughing at people who take their jobs seriously. Telling stories of dysentry, dangerous situations, psychedelics, corrupt police, bribing border guards, and living on pennies a day. "You get to see the real <wherever>". But while they certainly got closer to 'grit', they never really blended in with the locals for the same reason that they couldn't appreciate poverty. It was because they knew they had an exit strategy. They were fake, like Carla in Fight Club, going to terminal cancer support groups. Like the rich girl in Pulp's song, Common People, hanging out in a rough neighborhood, renting a flat above a shop, getting a shitty job and pretending she never went to school. But she never gets it right because she knows she can call her Daddy any time and he'll rescue her. And true enough, every man-Jack of those 20-something's had a car and a career within months of their return, and they're rightfully embarrassed about the enlightened crap they gave everyone when they first got back. Maybe a 2 week holiday to see the scenery is just as good after all?

Osmium 5y ago

I think you slightly misread the article. His sadness was for those people who wanted to hear the cuckoos (for example, birdwatchers) but could not because they were in a hurry, or did not have the patience or the time to listen.

tomc1985 5y ago

I think that most rich-country urbanites and suburbanites are spoiled for choice in things to experiences. It wasn't that long ago that most people hadn't traveled much further than the next town over, let alone another state or country. Logistics has gotten to the point where its practical to have most everything everywhere that lots of people are. Life before plenty was hard and boring by our standards. You can still see this in poorer, remote areas -- my experience is mainly with the American midwest and random foreign travel. There simply isn't much to do (or eat, or see), unless you're close to a big city.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

steve_adams_86 5y ago

To me it seems he’s saddened by knowing the beauty that they’ve missed out on for such trivial reasons of impatience and rushing through their lives.

fastball 5y ago
I mean, everybody ever is gonna miss out on the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of beauty this world has to offer. Even if you were immortal and could teleport you'd miss out on most of the beauty.
- industriousthou 5y ago
  Yeah, but they took the time to go there for the experience and still missed out on it.
- galangalalgol 5y ago
  I think maybe by trying to experience many things, those people end up having experienced nothing deeply? And his advice would be to pick one or two of those things and really dig in.

isoskeles 5y ago

I find them a bit less depressing than people frantically trying to experience "new" things as an effort to quiet the constant agitation of their souls.

robbrown451 5y ago
I don't think that the reason I've tried Chinese food is to quiet the agitation of my soul. Do you?
- culturestate 5y ago
  I literally moved to China to try and find whatever I was missing at the time; a decade, four other countries, and countless adrenaline-seeking excursions later, some part of me is still searching. It may not apply to everyone, or even a majority of people who go out of their way for something new, but I know exactly what the parent comment means.
  - wombatmobile 5y ago
    > I know exactly what the parent comment means. Well, firstly, there was a misunderstanding in the parent comment, but ignoring that, I understand you are saying that you derive enjoyment from new experiences, which you have actively sought out for at least a decade, and don't enjoy the company of people who are not like that. But do you mean to say that you wouldn't enjoy meeting an old Welsh farmer who is not like anyone else you know? From what you've described about your interests and activities, I imagine you might enjoy the experience, at least for a while. From what you've said, you wouldn't want to be like him, but that's a different thing to the experience of meeting him, isn't it?
    - culturestate 5y ago
      No, it's nothing like that. I was referring to this... > people frantically trying to experience "new" things as an effort to quiet the constant agitation of their souls ...and pointing out that there are different kinds of, I guess, opportunistic openness. One is the normal, well-adjusted kind where you say sure, let's try some Chinese food or hey, I've never been to Wales, should we go to Cardiff this weekend? It's the Michael Palin version. The other, darker one - the one I had and which the grandparent was referring to - is the kind where you're constantly looking for the next thing or place or whatever that will make you feel content with life. It's not about experience for experience's sake, it's about trying to find something, anything, that will soothe your soul. This is the Anthony Bourdain version. It's not that I wouldn't want to go to Wales or meet the farmer; I would, of course. The difference is in the motivation and the satisfaction I would derive from it.

fma 5y ago

That's not what he's saying. He's saying that those who want to experience things...don't. People drive from far away probably just to stay there for a few seconds and call it a day, while sitting in their car. Probably take a selfie and say they were there to experience the cuckoos...but really didn't. That's why he's sad for them.

birdyrooster 5y ago
That’s not what he saying either. He’s saying that cuckoos don’t care if you watch them, because the sounds they make aren’t for those people who pass by. The cuckoos are for cuckoos and he is a sad one indeed.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Rapzid 5y ago
  > As told to Kiran Sidhu Who knows what he really said. Not us.

kwdc 5y ago

I got the sense he laments others lack of depth in what he has experienced, "They only stayed a moment and didn't see everything!". The irony is that others wonder about his lack of breadth of experience. "He hasn't explored enough and didn't see everything!" People are different.

graderjs 5y ago

Is his way better? Nah, it's just what he prefers. But he's smarter than them, because, he doesn't try stuff he's not committed to. He just keeps doing what he loves. But they try things, but don't commit to it, and so they miss out. His ROI is higher. He invests in 5 things, and they all pay off. The cuckoo "fly overs" make a bet on the cuckoo, but don't persist enough to see it pay off. We can definitely learn something from this guy, in our "ephemeral age". As Dang says about attention on HN: people give it their all, only the moderators do that, and that's what keeps the place from descending into madness. But everyone else can only give a part of their attention to HN. Fair enough, but you need some people giving it their all if you want HN to be good. Caveat is, he's probably great at narrating his solitary life and justifying his seclusion. We don't hear from him about all the stuff that isn't great. It's possible there's lots of that stuff, too :) ;p xx

oilostthelast 5y ago

You find noble, humble and virtuous souls depressing to be around? Look at this austere man, so capable. Entirely singular. Wholly content. How can you come to find even a hint of the vaguest ennui. Truly I envy the man, I aspire to be so contented, unfortunately I've decades of conditioning to unravel to attain such a saintly outlook. Imagine how simple and humane the world would be if it was populated with people like this. The man is wise. Would it be fair to assume you find such people "depressing" because they're resistant to your superficial intellectual rotundity? Because they don't play your games?

Decker87 5y ago
I can't tell if this is satire. If it is, bravo, well done.
- oilostthelast 5y ago
  On the contrary, I'm deadly sincere. You'd do well to read up on the Roman views on agriculture. It was, perhaps, the most respected occupation. In any case, this constant goading of science, the excision of religion, the exorcising of divinity of the soul and the blatant machinations which analytical minds use to crush the working class into their finely cut time pieces are abominable. All for the sake of... What? There's nobody in this world that could convince me there is a meaningful direction which all of this unremittant locomotion trends; other than ruin that is. And that's despite a deep desire to find precisely that. We're sacrificing humanity for the vain and meagre rewards of the flesh and conditioned from birth to tow the line. This man seems to have entirely insulated himself from that, he renders his services seemingly for the sake of it. Lives, very apparently, with great modesty. He does this despite the social pressures to do otherwise, it is quite probable that he sacrificed romance to avoid the capricious intermingling of someone else, since few are contented without effecting their next step on the hedonic treadmill, their sisyphian burden. I respect and admire the man.
- robbrown451 5y ago
  Haha, that's the impression I got as well. Alas, I think he/she is serious.