5 ms·

Two men arrested with 7 kg radioactive uranium in Mumbai

85 points by xbmcuser 5y ago

ekelsen 5y ago
I can't tell from the article if this is enriched uranium (which would be really scary), or just uranium as it comes out of the ground (which would be much less scary, although still not great).
- girvo 5y ago
  I wonder if unenriched but still radioactive uranium chucked inside a conventional explosive bomb would be as scary as that sounds to me.
  - xeromal 5y ago
    Pretty sure they call that a dirty bomb. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_bomb
    - agogdog 5y ago
      Until recently I didn't realize that dirty bombs were considered to only be marginally more dangerous than conventional bombs... it's interesting how the psyop component of the concept of a dirty bomb is kind of played up a bit even by our own government.
  - eloff 5y ago
    Not really. Basically just slightly scarier than the bomb itself. It's not an effective terrorist strategy, since slightly raising cancer risk over a long period of time is one of the least dramatic and fear inspiring things. The really dangerous stuff they don't seem to do, like lighting the forests on fire at the height of fire season, or engineering an airborne pandemic. Thankfully.
  - bsder 5y ago
    You would be in more danger from the Uranium acting as a heavy metal ion poison than from radiation. Breathing fine powders of metal ions is generally unwise--radioactive or no.
- anthropodie 5y ago
  > The uranium was seized and was sent to BARC in Mumbai for analysis. A report was received that the substance is Natural Uranium, which is highly radioactive and dangerous to human life. They are saying its natural Uranium.
  - eloff 5y ago
    So 7kg natural uranium is not something you want in your pocket, but not such a big deal either.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
      The main reason not to put it in your pocket is that it'll pull your pants down uncomfortably. You don't want to grind it into a fine powder and breathe that in, or ingest it, but the toxicity is a bigger threat than the radioactivity.
  - ekelsen 5y ago
    "Natural Uranium" in solid form isn't really what I would call "highly reactive and dangerous to human life", so I don't find this statement to be that definitive. "While the CDC has published one study that no human cancer has been seen as a result of exposure to natural or depleted uranium" -- wikipedia article on uranium.
- exnukeguy 5y ago
  I got excited at first and worried about the enrichment. The article mentions its natural uranium at some point. Its really not that scary after all. Id be more scared with the security implications of 7Kg of fentanyl than natural U.
- petre 5y ago
  It's natural Uranium. "Highly explosive and radioactive" is just sensation seeking news. Naturally occuring Radon-222 which is also an alpha emitter with a half life of 3.8 days instead of 4.68·10e9 years is a lot more radioactive than Uranium-238. It's still a toxic heavy metal.
- treeman79 5y ago
  I love how it’s described as “highly explosive”
anfilt 5y ago
The article does not even say what the ratios of the isotopes are. If it was depleted or uranium with an unenriched amount aka natural amount of trace U-235. Its not really any problem. Heck they make boat keels out of depleted uranium.
- rrmm 5y ago
  This article says it's 'natural uranium' https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/finance/news/two-arrested-7kg-natural-uranium-101427661.html https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/finance/news/two-arrested-7kg-n...
  - anfilt 5y ago
    If its natural why are we arresting people for 7kg. 7kg of unenriched uranium is nothing to worry about. If they had many tons and were planning on enriching then maybe be concerned.
    - DubiousPusher 5y ago
      Anti-terror squad needs something to do.
- arp242 5y ago
  This was my question as well; according to some other articles it was "natural uranium"[1]. This also isn't the first time, it happened in 2016 as well.[2] [1]: https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/mumbai-two-held-for-possessing-uranium-worth-rs-21-30-crore-sent-to-ats-custody-till-may-12-7304918/ https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/mumbai-two-h... [2]: https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/two-held-with-smuggled-depleted-uranium-in-mumbai-4439107/ https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/two-held-wit...
- anthropodie 5y ago
  > The uranium was seized and was sent to BARC in Mumbai for analysis. A report was received that the substance is Natural Uranium, which is highly radioactive and dangerous to human life. Article does not mention those details but if BARC has concluded that it was radioactive then it most definitely is radioactive.
fnord77 5y ago
as per reddit, it was just unenriched U ore
- perl4ever 5y ago
  I know nothing but what I can google, but ore must be worth like 4 cents a pound. So the estimate of value is odd.
graderjs 5y ago
Holy sheet
stabbystabstab 5y ago
Interesting how confidently they describe uranium as "highly explosive". I'm about 99% sure that isn't true.
- exnukeguy 5y ago
  Well U metal can oxidize so I guess if you made it into a powder it could react violently??? But no, 7Kg of natural U is not “highly explosive”.
sp332 5y ago
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/mumbai-nia-collects-fir-info-on-7kg-uranium-seizure-case/articleshow/82470622.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/mumbai-nia-c... It was "Natural Uranium" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_uranium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_uranium worth $2.9 million USD.
charliea0 5y ago
This seems dumb exaggeration. I assume 'natural uranium' refers to ore which is not particularly radioactive nor dangerous. It certainly isn't explosive, you can buy it on ebay.
- haram_masala 5y ago
  Yeah, but 7kg of ore wouldn’t cost $1.5 million.
  - exporectomy 5y ago
    That's more like the price of highly enriched uranium (weapons grade). Reactor uranium is nowhere near that expensive, and of course neither is natural uranium. Maybe the police used the highest price they could find for the charge and leave it to the defendants to argue that it's incorrect.
RandomWorker 5y ago
crore is 10,000,000 -> with the current exchange rate of 21.00 INR = 0.29 USD -> value of the Uranium is $USD 2.9Mil
- perl4ever 5y ago
  To put that in perspective, $2.9M in uranium is nearly 50 tons of "yellowcake", aka U₃O₈. But! It takes ~780 lbs of uranium ore to produce one pound of yellowcake (worth about $30). So $2.9M in uranium ore is about 39,000 tons. Is that a lot? Well, it's about 0.02% of Cameco's proven reserves, but a little much to casually walk out with. Sources: https://www.cameco.com/businesses/uranium-operations/canada/cigar-lake/reserves-resources https://www.cameco.com/businesses/uranium-operations/canada/... https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/uranium https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/uranium
mikewarot 5y ago
This is fear mongering worthy of "Fox News" here in the US. Uranium is about $30/pound... and 7kg is about 15 pounds.. so $450 of uranium? Source: https://ycharts.com/indicators/uranium_spot_price#:~:text=Uranium%20Spot%20Price%20is%20at,from%2024.66%20one%20year%20ago https://ycharts.com/indicators/uranium_spot_price#:~:text=Ur.... Uranium is toxic, and burns, but it's not a high explosive, just something you don't want to ingest or inhale, lest you get heavy metal poisoning, and an increased risk of cancer. [Addendum] Long ago I was talking with colleagues who worked at a Nuclear Power Plant, they described the inbound fuel shipments as something you could camp on top of. Also: It takes the resources of a nation state to separate vast quantities of natural uranium into U-235 or other pure isotopes.
- anthropodie 5y ago
  but article mentions it's worth ₹21 crore (2.8 million USD). If only these news media were little bit more curious, BARC would not hesitate in giving details,
- zabzonk 5y ago
  > and burns Do you mean it is flammable, or that it damages tissue as an acid would? I don't believe either is the case. It's not something in the form of dust you would want to inhale, but clothing and skin would stop anything unenriched uranium would produce.
  - meepmorp 5y ago
    Uranium is pyrophoric when finely divided.
    - zabzonk 5y ago
      So are many metals. But in lump form, few are.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
robertelder 5y ago
That's interesting that it was exactly 7kg. Maybe they read this document first: (§ 40.22 Small quantities of source material.) https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/cfr/part040/part040-0022.html https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/cfr/part040/p... "(a) A general license is hereby issued authorizing commercial and industrial firms; research, educational, and medical institutions; and Federal, State, and local government agencies to receive, possess, use, and transfer uranium and thorium, in their natural isotopic concentrations and in the form of depleted uranium, for research, development, educational, commercial, or operational purposes in the following forms and quantities: ... (2) No more than a total of 7 kg (15.4 lb) of uranium and thorium at any one time... "
- throwaway3neu94 5y ago
  Wrong country.
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
    Perhaps it was bound for the USA eventually though?
BrissyCoder 5y ago
Uranium isn't highly explosive.
charliea0 5y ago
You can use the ore to produce potent sources for calibration and such. As it is though, this seems like an overreaction. Radon detector / Alpha-beta radiation source. https://fusor.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=9166 https://fusor.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=9166
stefan_ 5y ago
So they found some guys selling uranium ore - if you could build a bomb with that, they would have done that back in Rome. The clown posse photo fits perfectly, then - a bunch of tourists presenting their latest costumed catch, complete with the obligatory nose sticking out of a mask.
- stevespang 5y ago
  Clown posse !!!
zelienople 5y ago
Fearmongering nonsense. This was natural uranium ore, not explosive, not highly radioactive, not dangerous, cannot realistically be used for any nefarious purpose. This was a scrap dealer trying to make a little money in hard times. There is absolutely nothing to see here except the profound stupidity of humans over-reacting to something they know nothing about. Move along.
1cvmask 5y ago
Despite the headline Coronavirus is the biggest threat to India now.
Animats 5y ago
A report was received that the substance is Natural Uranium, which is highly radioactive and dangerous to human life. Right. Ordering info from United Nuclear for uranium metal: "Caution: Use normal safety precautions (wear a filter mask/respirator and gloves) when working with Uranium metal. Accidental inhalation or ingestion of Uranium particles can be dangerous. Machining will produce particles that can spontaneously ignite producing radioactive smoke. Note: adult signature required upon delivery." If you want some uranium ore, it's on Amazon.[1] Meanwhile, Uranium Energy Corporation purchased 2,105,000 pounds of uranium oxide, which they are stockpiling as an investment.[2] [1] https://www.amazon.com/Images-SI-Uranium-Ore/dp/B000796XXM https://www.amazon.com/Images-SI-Uranium-Ore/dp/B000796XXM [2] https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/uranium-energy-corp-expands-physical-uranium-initiative-to-purchase-2-1-million-pounds-u3o8-and-announces-financing-1030276075 https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/uranium-ener...
jugg1es 5y ago
Huge difference between naturally occurring (mildly radioactive but not explosive) uranium and highly-enriched uranium (highly radioactive and potentially explosive) this article makes no distinction.
stevespang 5y ago
Total overreaction. Quite obviously terror squad trying to make a name for itself, this is likely NOT 80 to 90% enriched 235 isotope, which is the isotope used for nuclear weapons. Pure natural uranium metal which is not enriched, and is in bulk form, is not a particularly real hazard, unless ingested or inhaled, which would require smaller pieces or powders.
barnaclejive 5y ago
If you want to learn more about Uranium, this recent podcast was pretty good: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-stuff-you-should-know-26940277/episode/how-uranium-mining-works-82248602/ https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-stuff-you-should-know-269...
chakhs 5y ago
And the perpetrator's name is conveniently "Abu Tahir"
SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
This would be news if they'd somehow managed to make non-radioactive uranium. ALL naturally occuring uranium isotopes are radioactive. A stable (synthetic) isotope would be big news, and the existence of a process to get 7kg of such would be huge! Sadly that's not what this is. This is just overzealous policing.

85 points by xbmcuser 5y ago

I can't tell from the article if this is enriched uranium (which would be really scary), or just uranium as it comes out of the ground (which would be much less scary, although still not great).

girvo 5y ago
I wonder if unenriched but still radioactive uranium chucked inside a conventional explosive bomb would be as scary as that sounds to me.
- xeromal 5y ago
  Pretty sure they call that a dirty bomb. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_bomb
  - agogdog 5y ago
    Until recently I didn't realize that dirty bombs were considered to only be marginally more dangerous than conventional bombs... it's interesting how the psyop component of the concept of a dirty bomb is kind of played up a bit even by our own government.
- eloff 5y ago
  Not really. Basically just slightly scarier than the bomb itself. It's not an effective terrorist strategy, since slightly raising cancer risk over a long period of time is one of the least dramatic and fear inspiring things. The really dangerous stuff they don't seem to do, like lighting the forests on fire at the height of fire season, or engineering an airborne pandemic. Thankfully.
- bsder 5y ago
  You would be in more danger from the Uranium acting as a heavy metal ion poison than from radiation. Breathing fine powders of metal ions is generally unwise--radioactive or no.
anthropodie 5y ago
> The uranium was seized and was sent to BARC in Mumbai for analysis. A report was received that the substance is Natural Uranium, which is highly radioactive and dangerous to human life. They are saying its natural Uranium.
- eloff 5y ago
  So 7kg natural uranium is not something you want in your pocket, but not such a big deal either.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
    The main reason not to put it in your pocket is that it'll pull your pants down uncomfortably. You don't want to grind it into a fine powder and breathe that in, or ingest it, but the toxicity is a bigger threat than the radioactivity.
- ekelsen 5y ago
  "Natural Uranium" in solid form isn't really what I would call "highly reactive and dangerous to human life", so I don't find this statement to be that definitive. "While the CDC has published one study that no human cancer has been seen as a result of exposure to natural or depleted uranium" -- wikipedia article on uranium.
exnukeguy 5y ago
I got excited at first and worried about the enrichment. The article mentions its natural uranium at some point. Its really not that scary after all. Id be more scared with the security implications of 7Kg of fentanyl than natural U.
petre 5y ago
It's natural Uranium. "Highly explosive and radioactive" is just sensation seeking news. Naturally occuring Radon-222 which is also an alpha emitter with a half life of 3.8 days instead of 4.68·10e9 years is a lot more radioactive than Uranium-238. It's still a toxic heavy metal.
treeman79 5y ago
I love how it’s described as “highly explosive”

anfilt 5y ago

The article does not even say what the ratios of the isotopes are. If it was depleted or uranium with an unenriched amount aka natural amount of trace U-235. Its not really any problem. Heck they make boat keels out of depleted uranium.

rrmm 5y ago
This article says it's 'natural uranium' https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/finance/news/two-arrested-7kg-natural-uranium-101427661.html https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/finance/news/two-arrested-7kg-n...
- anfilt 5y ago
  If its natural why are we arresting people for 7kg. 7kg of unenriched uranium is nothing to worry about. If they had many tons and were planning on enriching then maybe be concerned.
  - DubiousPusher 5y ago
    Anti-terror squad needs something to do.
arp242 5y ago
This was my question as well; according to some other articles it was "natural uranium"[1]. This also isn't the first time, it happened in 2016 as well.[2] [1]: https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/mumbai-two-held-for-possessing-uranium-worth-rs-21-30-crore-sent-to-ats-custody-till-may-12-7304918/ https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/mumbai-two-h... [2]: https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/two-held-with-smuggled-depleted-uranium-in-mumbai-4439107/ https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/two-held-wit...
anthropodie 5y ago
> The uranium was seized and was sent to BARC in Mumbai for analysis. A report was received that the substance is Natural Uranium, which is highly radioactive and dangerous to human life. Article does not mention those details but if BARC has concluded that it was radioactive then it most definitely is radioactive.

fnord77 5y ago

as per reddit, it was just unenriched U ore

perl4ever 5y ago
I know nothing but what I can google, but ore must be worth like 4 cents a pound. So the estimate of value is odd.

graderjs 5y ago

Holy sheet

stabbystabstab 5y ago

Interesting how confidently they describe uranium as "highly explosive". I'm about 99% sure that isn't true.

exnukeguy 5y ago
Well U metal can oxidize so I guess if you made it into a powder it could react violently??? But no, 7Kg of natural U is not “highly explosive”.

sp332 5y ago

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/mumbai-nia-collects-fir-info-on-7kg-uranium-seizure-case/articleshow/82470622.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/mumbai-nia-c... It was "Natural Uranium" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_uranium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_uranium worth $2.9 million USD.

charliea0 5y ago

This seems dumb exaggeration. I assume 'natural uranium' refers to ore which is not particularly radioactive nor dangerous. It certainly isn't explosive, you can buy it on ebay.

haram_masala 5y ago
Yeah, but 7kg of ore wouldn’t cost $1.5 million.
- exporectomy 5y ago
  That's more like the price of highly enriched uranium (weapons grade). Reactor uranium is nowhere near that expensive, and of course neither is natural uranium. Maybe the police used the highest price they could find for the charge and leave it to the defendants to argue that it's incorrect.

RandomWorker 5y ago

crore is 10,000,000 -> with the current exchange rate of 21.00 INR = 0.29 USD -> value of the Uranium is $USD 2.9Mil

perl4ever 5y ago
To put that in perspective, $2.9M in uranium is nearly 50 tons of "yellowcake", aka U₃O₈. But! It takes ~780 lbs of uranium ore to produce one pound of yellowcake (worth about $30). So $2.9M in uranium ore is about 39,000 tons. Is that a lot? Well, it's about 0.02% of Cameco's proven reserves, but a little much to casually walk out with. Sources: https://www.cameco.com/businesses/uranium-operations/canada/cigar-lake/reserves-resources https://www.cameco.com/businesses/uranium-operations/canada/... https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/uranium https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/uranium

mikewarot 5y ago

This is fear mongering worthy of "Fox News" here in the US. Uranium is about $30/pound... and 7kg is about 15 pounds.. so $450 of uranium? Source: https://ycharts.com/indicators/uranium_spot_price#:~:text=Uranium%20Spot%20Price%20is%20at,from%2024.66%20one%20year%20ago https://ycharts.com/indicators/uranium_spot_price#:~:text=Ur.... Uranium is toxic, and burns, but it's not a high explosive, just something you don't want to ingest or inhale, lest you get heavy metal poisoning, and an increased risk of cancer. [Addendum] Long ago I was talking with colleagues who worked at a Nuclear Power Plant, they described the inbound fuel shipments as something you could camp on top of. Also: It takes the resources of a nation state to separate vast quantities of natural uranium into U-235 or other pure isotopes.

anthropodie 5y ago
but article mentions it's worth ₹21 crore (2.8 million USD). If only these news media were little bit more curious, BARC would not hesitate in giving details,
zabzonk 5y ago
> and burns Do you mean it is flammable, or that it damages tissue as an acid would? I don't believe either is the case. It's not something in the form of dust you would want to inhale, but clothing and skin would stop anything unenriched uranium would produce.
- meepmorp 5y ago
  Uranium is pyrophoric when finely divided.
  - zabzonk 5y ago
    So are many metals. But in lump form, few are.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

robertelder 5y ago

That's interesting that it was exactly 7kg. Maybe they read this document first: (§ 40.22 Small quantities of source material.) https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/cfr/part040/part040-0022.html https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/cfr/part040/p... "(a) A general license is hereby issued authorizing commercial and industrial firms; research, educational, and medical institutions; and Federal, State, and local government agencies to receive, possess, use, and transfer uranium and thorium, in their natural isotopic concentrations and in the form of depleted uranium, for research, development, educational, commercial, or operational purposes in the following forms and quantities: ... (2) No more than a total of 7 kg (15.4 lb) of uranium and thorium at any one time... "

throwaway3neu94 5y ago
Wrong country.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
  Perhaps it was bound for the USA eventually though?

BrissyCoder 5y ago

Uranium isn't highly explosive.

charliea0 5y ago

You can use the ore to produce potent sources for calibration and such. As it is though, this seems like an overreaction. Radon detector / Alpha-beta radiation source. https://fusor.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=9166 https://fusor.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=9166

stefan_ 5y ago

So they found some guys selling uranium ore - if you could build a bomb with that, they would have done that back in Rome. The clown posse photo fits perfectly, then - a bunch of tourists presenting their latest costumed catch, complete with the obligatory nose sticking out of a mask.

stevespang 5y ago
Clown posse !!!

zelienople 5y ago

Fearmongering nonsense. This was natural uranium ore, not explosive, not highly radioactive, not dangerous, cannot realistically be used for any nefarious purpose. This was a scrap dealer trying to make a little money in hard times. There is absolutely nothing to see here except the profound stupidity of humans over-reacting to something they know nothing about. Move along.

1cvmask 5y ago

Despite the headline Coronavirus is the biggest threat to India now.

Animats 5y ago

A report was received that the substance is Natural Uranium, which is highly radioactive and dangerous to human life. Right. Ordering info from United Nuclear for uranium metal: "Caution: Use normal safety precautions (wear a filter mask/respirator and gloves) when working with Uranium metal. Accidental inhalation or ingestion of Uranium particles can be dangerous. Machining will produce particles that can spontaneously ignite producing radioactive smoke. Note: adult signature required upon delivery." If you want some uranium ore, it's on Amazon.[1] Meanwhile, Uranium Energy Corporation purchased 2,105,000 pounds of uranium oxide, which they are stockpiling as an investment.[2] [1] https://www.amazon.com/Images-SI-Uranium-Ore/dp/B000796XXM https://www.amazon.com/Images-SI-Uranium-Ore/dp/B000796XXM [2] https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/uranium-energy-corp-expands-physical-uranium-initiative-to-purchase-2-1-million-pounds-u3o8-and-announces-financing-1030276075 https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/uranium-ener...

jugg1es 5y ago

Huge difference between naturally occurring (mildly radioactive but not explosive) uranium and highly-enriched uranium (highly radioactive and potentially explosive) this article makes no distinction.

stevespang 5y ago

Total overreaction. Quite obviously terror squad trying to make a name for itself, this is likely NOT 80 to 90% enriched 235 isotope, which is the isotope used for nuclear weapons. Pure natural uranium metal which is not enriched, and is in bulk form, is not a particularly real hazard, unless ingested or inhaled, which would require smaller pieces or powders.

barnaclejive 5y ago

If you want to learn more about Uranium, this recent podcast was pretty good: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-stuff-you-should-know-26940277/episode/how-uranium-mining-works-82248602/ https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-stuff-you-should-know-269...

chakhs 5y ago

And the perpetrator's name is conveniently "Abu Tahir"

SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago

This would be news if they'd somehow managed to make non-radioactive uranium. ALL naturally occuring uranium isotopes are radioactive. A stable (synthetic) isotope would be big news, and the existence of a process to get 7kg of such would be huge! Sadly that's not what this is. This is just overzealous policing.