4 ms·

This is the reason people take their shit to Goodwill. Cities and counties make it too hard to dispose of broken stuff. My locality won't take anything with an

This is the reason people take their shit to Goodwill. Cities and counties make it too hard to dispose of broken stuff. My locality won't take anything with an electrical cord or a screen, won't take paint, oil, antifreeze, etc. This just encourages people to dump it all at Goodwill and let them deal with it, or drive out along some country road and dump it in a ravine.

arp242 6y ago
The cost of disposal should be taxed on purchase, and disposal made free.
- paxys 6y ago
  Isn't that just sales tax?
  - arp242 6y ago
    Don't know how it works in the US, but in most European countries sales tax/VAT is mostly just a general tax, like income tax. The problem with a lot of these things are that the costs of disposal aren't counted in the purchase; the company doesn't have to worry about it, the consumer doesn't have to worry about it (until they want to get rid of their fridge or whatnot), and for smaller stuff like Pringles tubes no one seems to pay for it. This actually applies to most environmental costs. At some point, someone's got to actually pay for all this. There are a few ways to do this; and an explicit "disposal surcharge" is one way. This could (should!) be higher for hard to dispose products/packages, like packaging that have the the infamous vaporized aluminium applied, and less for easier to dispose packaging. In short, it should reflect the actual costs of disposal and other environmental costs. Just as the costs of raw products, labour, etc. are factored in to a product's price, so should these kind of things. Aside from the "disposable products" issue, a lot of packaging exists purely for reasons of marketing, to make the product "stand out" more. Makes sense economically right now as no one is paying for those costs, at least not directly. This would change the incentives and what made sense economically beforehand will now make a lot less sense. I'm not dead-set on a tax as such, maybe there's a better way. The point is that the price of a product should account for all costs of manufacture, not just the costs of the manufacturer pays directly.
    - paxys 6y ago
      Bottle/can deposit-refund systems are the closest thing to this in place today in a handful of states in the US. California also charges an eWaste fee for a tiny subset of electronics. Ultimately this isn't feasible at a larger scale since sales taxes are levied at the state/local level, so there are literally thousands of tax jurisdictions involved which would all have to figure out how much every item ever sold would reasonably cost to dispose.
      - arp242 6y ago
        Those problems are somewhat unique to the US; most other countries just have a national tax. But yeah, practically it's not necessarily easy. Still, we need to do something IMHO, and this is the best I've been able to come up with thus far which still respects free markets and consumer choices, but also doesn't just shrug off the many very real environmental costs (or leaves it for the government to clean up, maybe). Overall, it seems like a fairly nice balance to me.
  - mypalmike 6y ago
    Municipal waste disposal usually is funded through property tax.
- ARandomerDude 6y ago
  Give the government money now for the promise they'll use it correctly tomorrow and not spend it on something else in the meantime. What could go wrong?
  - hannasanarion 6y ago
    Do you think that accounting doesn't exist?
    - ARandomerDude 6y ago
      You've heard of social security, right?
    - mssundaram 6y ago
      Do you think that accounting is always correct, accurate and not rigged?
  - TheRealSteel 6y ago
    This could be said about every tax ever
  - pjc50 6y ago
    Can I sign you up for "defund the police", or is that the kind of giving money to the government that people are always in favor of?
- Freak_NL 6y ago
  This is common in much of the EU. When my washing machine broke down¹ it was taken away with the delivery of the new one; the seller is required to offer that (free) option. This is the easiest way, but I can also schedule an appointment with the municipal garbage disposal hotline to come pick it up a few times a year. The alternative is people dumping their stuff somewhere which will have to be cleaned up anyway, so this is cheaper. 1: I did repair it some years prior (broken cross piece), but this time the electronics failed, and with a toddler getting a working washing machine fast is kind of a priority.
toast0 6y ago
> drive out along some country road and dump it in a ravine. I have several acres of forested land. Anytime we clear out underbrush it's chock full of dumped garbage and drink containers. Ugh.
Leherenn 6y ago
What are you supposed to do with it then? Find an organisation that do accept them I assume?

arp242 6y ago

The cost of disposal should be taxed on purchase, and disposal made free.

paxys 6y ago
Isn't that just sales tax?
- arp242 6y ago
  Don't know how it works in the US, but in most European countries sales tax/VAT is mostly just a general tax, like income tax. The problem with a lot of these things are that the costs of disposal aren't counted in the purchase; the company doesn't have to worry about it, the consumer doesn't have to worry about it (until they want to get rid of their fridge or whatnot), and for smaller stuff like Pringles tubes no one seems to pay for it. This actually applies to most environmental costs. At some point, someone's got to actually pay for all this. There are a few ways to do this; and an explicit "disposal surcharge" is one way. This could (should!) be higher for hard to dispose products/packages, like packaging that have the the infamous vaporized aluminium applied, and less for easier to dispose packaging. In short, it should reflect the actual costs of disposal and other environmental costs. Just as the costs of raw products, labour, etc. are factored in to a product's price, so should these kind of things. Aside from the "disposable products" issue, a lot of packaging exists purely for reasons of marketing, to make the product "stand out" more. Makes sense economically right now as no one is paying for those costs, at least not directly. This would change the incentives and what made sense economically beforehand will now make a lot less sense. I'm not dead-set on a tax as such, maybe there's a better way. The point is that the price of a product should account for all costs of manufacture, not just the costs of the manufacturer pays directly.
  - paxys 6y ago
    Bottle/can deposit-refund systems are the closest thing to this in place today in a handful of states in the US. California also charges an eWaste fee for a tiny subset of electronics. Ultimately this isn't feasible at a larger scale since sales taxes are levied at the state/local level, so there are literally thousands of tax jurisdictions involved which would all have to figure out how much every item ever sold would reasonably cost to dispose.
    - arp242 6y ago
      Those problems are somewhat unique to the US; most other countries just have a national tax. But yeah, practically it's not necessarily easy. Still, we need to do something IMHO, and this is the best I've been able to come up with thus far which still respects free markets and consumer choices, but also doesn't just shrug off the many very real environmental costs (or leaves it for the government to clean up, maybe). Overall, it seems like a fairly nice balance to me.
- mypalmike 6y ago
  Municipal waste disposal usually is funded through property tax.
ARandomerDude 6y ago
Give the government money now for the promise they'll use it correctly tomorrow and not spend it on something else in the meantime. What could go wrong?
- hannasanarion 6y ago
  Do you think that accounting doesn't exist?
  - ARandomerDude 6y ago
    You've heard of social security, right?
  - mssundaram 6y ago
    Do you think that accounting is always correct, accurate and not rigged?
- TheRealSteel 6y ago
  This could be said about every tax ever
- pjc50 6y ago
  Can I sign you up for "defund the police", or is that the kind of giving money to the government that people are always in favor of?
Freak_NL 6y ago
This is common in much of the EU. When my washing machine broke down¹ it was taken away with the delivery of the new one; the seller is required to offer that (free) option. This is the easiest way, but I can also schedule an appointment with the municipal garbage disposal hotline to come pick it up a few times a year. The alternative is people dumping their stuff somewhere which will have to be cleaned up anyway, so this is cheaper. 1: I did repair it some years prior (broken cross piece), but this time the electronics failed, and with a toddler getting a working washing machine fast is kind of a priority.

toast0 6y ago

> drive out along some country road and dump it in a ravine. I have several acres of forested land. Anytime we clear out underbrush it's chock full of dumped garbage and drink containers. Ugh.

Leherenn 6y ago

What are you supposed to do with it then? Find an organisation that do accept them I assume?