4 ms·

If the state murders even a single innocent person, then they are no better than the actual murderers. It’s insane to me that capital punishment is still a thin

If the state murders even a single innocent person, then they are no better than the actual murderers. It’s insane to me that capital punishment is still a thing.

thatswrong0 5y ago
There was a study published in 2014 that estimated that the false conviction rate for defendants sentenced to death was at least 4.1% (https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/04/23/1306417111 https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/04/23/1306417111)
ALittleLight 5y ago
Do you think the same logic applies to prisons? e.g. If the state imprisons one innocent person than it is as bad as a kidnapper who abducted an innocent person and held them against their will?
- netizen-936824 5y ago
  Absolutely.
- Brian_K_White 5y ago
  Yes. But it would not be any kind of "gotcha" anyway. A remediable error is different from an irrecoverable error.
  - ALittleLight 5y ago
    It's not a remediable error though. You can't give someone back the X years you incorrectly imprisoned them. If you don't discover the error you won't fix it. If the person dies while incarcerated from disease, suicide, or violence (all more likely in prison than outside) you can't undo it. All you can do is stop future punishment, not undo past unjust punishment.
smitty1e 5y ago
I'd gladly trade capital punishment to end the holocaust that is abortion. Both are woes, so I'll fall short of comparing the magnitude of them.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tablespoon 5y ago
> If the state murders even a single innocent person, then they are no better than the actual murderers. It’s insane to me that capital punishment is still a thing. IMHO, it's probably worse than execution to subject someone to life imprisonment in a supermax like ADX Florence.
georgewsinger 5y ago
If the state taxes immorally from even a single innocent person, are they also no better than actual thieves? (Not trolling: I actually believe this.)
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > If the state taxes immorally from even a single innocent person... What does that even mean?
- LocalH 5y ago
  I'm starting to believe that tax liability should be tied to voting rights. If the state decides to remove your right to vote for whatever reason, then you should also have zero tax liability. If you can't vote, you're not represented by the government (as your voice cannot be heard), so why should they be able to tax you? "No taxation without representation".
  - Viliam1234 5y ago
    Would it be too crazy to make a law that you only pay tax when your political party wins the election? Because in a "winner takes it all" system you are not really represented otherwise.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Would it be too crazy to make a law that you only pay tax when your political party wins the election? Yes, in general, but even more particularly in a system featuring either some degree of direct democracy or supermajority requirements and/or appointed decision makers whose term extends beyond the elected officials that appointed them so effects of past control extend beyond an election loss or separation of powers where there is no single “the election” that determines current control of government (the US, at the federal level, has the last two, and most US states have all three.)
ikerdanzel 5y ago
Capital punishments works. Most Asian countries practising that has significant low crimes when compared to USA (excluded the states that do). For example, heavy drugs trafficking and addiction aren't such a problem compare to USA. It is also very cost effective as government don't need to house the prisoners for life. In USA incarcerations are generally outsourced hence a big business, in Asia, this is generally not. Hence capital punishment do works and very effective. So it isnt insane. What you're thinking of insane is because you never experience serious crime and never seen it works such as in Asia context. Things like what commonly happen in John Wicks world and Purge did happen in Asia in the past. It got purged with copious amount of capital punishments. Of course it is always abused by government, China historically used that to purge entire clans (probably few 10s of thousands of people head chopped in one go for each incidents).

If the state murders even a single innocent person, then they are no better than the actual murderers. It’s insane to me that capital punishment is still a thing.

thatswrong0 5y ago

There was a study published in 2014 that estimated that the false conviction rate for defendants sentenced to death was at least 4.1% (https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/04/23/1306417111 https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/04/23/1306417111)

ALittleLight 5y ago

Do you think the same logic applies to prisons? e.g. If the state imprisons one innocent person than it is as bad as a kidnapper who abducted an innocent person and held them against their will?

netizen-936824 5y ago
Absolutely.
Brian_K_White 5y ago
Yes. But it would not be any kind of "gotcha" anyway. A remediable error is different from an irrecoverable error.
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  It's not a remediable error though. You can't give someone back the X years you incorrectly imprisoned them. If you don't discover the error you won't fix it. If the person dies while incarcerated from disease, suicide, or violence (all more likely in prison than outside) you can't undo it. All you can do is stop future punishment, not undo past unjust punishment.

smitty1e 5y ago

I'd gladly trade capital punishment to end the holocaust that is abortion. Both are woes, so I'll fall short of comparing the magnitude of them.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

tablespoon 5y ago

> If the state murders even a single innocent person, then they are no better than the actual murderers. It’s insane to me that capital punishment is still a thing. IMHO, it's probably worse than execution to subject someone to life imprisonment in a supermax like ADX Florence.

georgewsinger 5y ago

If the state taxes immorally from even a single innocent person, are they also no better than actual thieves? (Not trolling: I actually believe this.)

tablespoon 5y ago
> If the state taxes immorally from even a single innocent person... What does that even mean?
LocalH 5y ago
I'm starting to believe that tax liability should be tied to voting rights. If the state decides to remove your right to vote for whatever reason, then you should also have zero tax liability. If you can't vote, you're not represented by the government (as your voice cannot be heard), so why should they be able to tax you? "No taxation without representation".
- Viliam1234 5y ago
  Would it be too crazy to make a law that you only pay tax when your political party wins the election? Because in a "winner takes it all" system you are not really represented otherwise.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Would it be too crazy to make a law that you only pay tax when your political party wins the election? Yes, in general, but even more particularly in a system featuring either some degree of direct democracy or supermajority requirements and/or appointed decision makers whose term extends beyond the elected officials that appointed them so effects of past control extend beyond an election loss or separation of powers where there is no single “the election” that determines current control of government (the US, at the federal level, has the last two, and most US states have all three.)

ikerdanzel 5y ago

Capital punishments works. Most Asian countries practising that has significant low crimes when compared to USA (excluded the states that do). For example, heavy drugs trafficking and addiction aren't such a problem compare to USA. It is also very cost effective as government don't need to house the prisoners for life. In USA incarcerations are generally outsourced hence a big business, in Asia, this is generally not. Hence capital punishment do works and very effective. So it isnt insane. What you're thinking of insane is because you never experience serious crime and never seen it works such as in Asia context. Things like what commonly happen in John Wicks world and Purge did happen in Asia in the past. It got purged with copious amount of capital punishments. Of course it is always abused by government, China historically used that to purge entire clans (probably few 10s of thousands of people head chopped in one go for each incidents).