3 ms·

When you translate to MIDI, you are going to lose a lot of the subtle pitch and tonality of the piano. One string vibrating produces overtones and a chord will

by cevn 5y ago

When you translate to MIDI, you are going to lose a lot of the subtle pitch and tonality of the piano. One string vibrating produces overtones and a chord will vibrate in a very deep way on a grand piano that I feel you cannot replicate in a MIDI, and therefore that detail would be subsequently lost. For instance, how long you are touching the string - while you're touching the string, there is a sound - but after you let off, you get the "reverb" - and there is different reverb for how you hit the key, if you bounce, or if you stay for a split second longer for staccato, I don't feel like these subtleties translate to MIDI. It is certainly easier than violin, that I will grant. edit: IMO the best way to do what you are describing is get a really good pianist to sit down and do the work. I don't think that (current?) machine learning can really "understand" the nuance of phrasing esp that would be coming from older recordings.

crazygringo 5y ago
> I don't feel like these subtleties translate to MIDI But wouldn't they be reproduced when replaying the MIDI data physically on a piano? Ultimately isn't how you hit the key and bounce/stay still just initial velocity and then timing of letting go? Perhaps the velocity of letting go would have to be added as well, but I'm not actually sure if that's really acoustically meaningful. I guess I don't see why all the reverb and ultimate sound complexity wouldn't be recreated in playback? Of course, this requires actual physical playback on a similar enough model of piano, or else a synthesizer that is sufficiently accurate.
- cevn 5y ago
  Well - for one thing there is the pedal is not itself binary but in degrees - and there are three pedals, one of which if you depress, will silence only some of the strings. I don't think MIDI itself is capable I guess, some other format might be. There are a lot of factors, and pianos sound different from each other, I think that would be lost.
  - crazygringo 5y ago
    MIDI is definitely capable -- code 64 is used for sustain pedal, and code 67 for soft pedal. And it's associated with a byte value for how far the pedal is depressed. The third (middle) pedal in pianos is nonstandard -- i.e. used for different effects on different pianos, whether sostenuto or bass damper or practice mute. In actual performance the only time it's ever really used (and rarely at that) is as sostenuto, since that's what it does on grand pianos like Steinways, but its effect is indistinguishable from simply holding notes for longer durations, so MIDI can simply represent its effect that way. (Unlike the sustain pedal which increases resonances in a big way and needs to be represented independently, or soft pedal which changes timbre as well as volume.)

by cevn 5y ago

crazygringo 5y ago

> I don't feel like these subtleties translate to MIDI But wouldn't they be reproduced when replaying the MIDI data physically on a piano? Ultimately isn't how you hit the key and bounce/stay still just initial velocity and then timing of letting go? Perhaps the velocity of letting go would have to be added as well, but I'm not actually sure if that's really acoustically meaningful. I guess I don't see why all the reverb and ultimate sound complexity wouldn't be recreated in playback? Of course, this requires actual physical playback on a similar enough model of piano, or else a synthesizer that is sufficiently accurate.

cevn 5y ago
Well - for one thing there is the pedal is not itself binary but in degrees - and there are three pedals, one of which if you depress, will silence only some of the strings. I don't think MIDI itself is capable I guess, some other format might be. There are a lot of factors, and pianos sound different from each other, I think that would be lost.
- crazygringo 5y ago
  MIDI is definitely capable -- code 64 is used for sustain pedal, and code 67 for soft pedal. And it's associated with a byte value for how far the pedal is depressed. The third (middle) pedal in pianos is nonstandard -- i.e. used for different effects on different pianos, whether sostenuto or bass damper or practice mute. In actual performance the only time it's ever really used (and rarely at that) is as sostenuto, since that's what it does on grand pianos like Steinways, but its effect is indistinguishable from simply holding notes for longer durations, so MIDI can simply represent its effect that way. (Unlike the sustain pedal which increases resonances in a big way and needs to be represented independently, or soft pedal which changes timbre as well as volume.)