11 ms·

German ambulances uses QR code to avoid people taking photos of accidentes

46 points by mrweasel 6y ago

kardos 6y ago
We are not far from cameras performing facial recognition and refusing to take photos of those on a "no photo list".
- Gravyness 6y ago
  If big smartphone companies like google or apple decided they could do this literally tomorrow.
blueking 6y ago
The rationale over decency and empathy for victims is a cover. What this does is prevent government workers from the accountability cellphone video can provide. Soon enough those QR codes will be on uniforms of emergency workers, and you won't be able to document incidents similar to George Floyd's death.
- estaseuropano 6y ago
  You are applying your views and preconceptions to this situation without understanding the cultural context. Privacy rights are very strong in Germany and most people hate gawkers/voyeurs that take photos in such situations. Similarly as it is an offense to name either suspect or victim of a crime in the media, while in America that is common practice. And courts have leeway - the justice system is not perfect but if you take a film to show an officer/medical staff abusing someone no court will punish you for that.
  - blueking 6y ago
    Sure but you won't be able to take the video, because the QR code will shut down your cell phone camera. Government workers need to be accountable and transparent. No hiding from the cameras in public service. Passing a law that protects the government from accountability under the guise of citizen rights is pretty underhanded, and quite typical of socialism.
    - olliej 6y ago
      That last sentence displayed your preconceptions and biases very clearly. America has an array of similar or even more abusive laws and it’s clearly not socialist.
      - kybernetyk 6y ago
        >and it’s clearly not socialist. [citation needed]
- _Microft 6y ago
  As a German, this is such a strange thing to read. This basically does not happen here. It is actually newsworthy when a police man had to shoot someone. There were, maybe, twelve people killed by police officers in 2020 (per ~83 million inhabitants!). Beside that, it's also fine to film police officers on duty? You might want to come over for a visit - it is actually really nice here. (And fyi, on top of not being rooted in (German) reality, this was a slippery slope argument anyways.) Edit: fourteen shot and three other deaths, according to [0]. Sadly this included two children and her police officer mother in a murder-suicide situation. That's why I am generally very glad that weapons aren't available to everyone here - you can't shoot yourself if you have no gun. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforc...
  - blueking 6y ago
    Oh I'm sorry you're a German living in a utopia? This clearly doesn't apply to you. You should just do whatever your government tells you. Turn off the camera, hand over the guns and get on the train. Everything will be Ok.
    - dang 6y ago
      We've banned this account for posting flamewar comments, like this one. That's not what HN is for. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. But please don't use multiple accounts to break them.
- detaro 6y ago
  ... you do understand that on any phone you can just not click the "QR code" notification? But of course reminding people to not be shitheads is "preventing accountability"...
forgotpwd16 6y ago
I guess default camera apps have built-in QR recognition nowadays? Else this won't have been useful. Asking as I've always used Open Camera, which doesn't, and Barcode Scanner, when I need this functionality.
- carlita_express 6y ago
  iOS has had this functionality for a while now, but android is a lot more diverse
  - bellyfullofbac 6y ago
    According to this https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208843 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208843 , it also just shows a notification on iOS, but I guess a URL that tells the camera holder they're being idiots would be good enough. I just tried scanning a QR Code on 2 Android phones. The first one didn't do anything automatic, the second one detected it and added a button on the camera UI, if you press it, it will show the text (or URL) and you have to press "Open URL" to go there. Interesting how the ad (YouTube video) oversells it, as if the URL loads itself. I wonder if that's how the ad agency (or whoever came up with this idea) sold it to the ambulance operators.
  - itslennysfault 6y ago
    The default camera on my android does this plus way more. It attempts to do OCR. So if I point it at a QR code it'll parse it. If there is a url or phone number it'll be clickable. Addresses can open google maps. Etc. It's honestly super impressive, and I noticed it at least 3 years ago on android.
- lol768 6y ago
  Pointing the phone at a QR code doesn't do anything on my Pixel 5 using the built-in camera app. Further, I can't even scan the colourful QR codes in the video even with a dedicated barcode scanning app. Seems like a useless concept.
  - 6y ago
JorgeGT 6y ago
Knights Hospitaller: from escorting pilgrims in 1099 Jerusalem to cleverly thwarting modern smartphones' cameras in 2021. I wonder what they will be doing in Mars in the year 3000.
randomhodler84 6y ago
Translated: “But gawking is not a trivial offense. Since January 1, 2021, a law has been in force that punishes photographing or filming an accident with a prison term of up to two years. With their action, the Johanniter show the drastic consequences and dangers of the greed for sensation and explain the punishments.“ I find this very heavy handed. What harm is simply photographing an accident scene, as long as you are not causing disruption. There was a recent case in .au where a guy filmed a several cops dying from a truck accident and taunting them (they were trying to give him a ticket when hit by another truck driver). He was sentenced to 10 months for breaking public decency.
- bbu 6y ago
  > what harm is simply photographing an accident scene, as long as you are not causing disruption Because it always causes disruption.
- ajcp 6y ago
  I agree it does come off as extreme, but I can understand the desire to provide society with some reasonable expectation of privacy in a public space when someone might no longer be able to consent to being in public. Sure, it's part of the inherent risk calculation when we venture out or interact with public space, but at the same time if I can no longer remove myself from that space when I want to achieve some privacy I think it's reasonable that society change the context of the space. At that point I would think that laws pertaining to the violation of privacy (like those regarding peeping-toms) should apply. That being said, and going back to the "no longer consent to being in public", what about drunks, or children who cannot legally exercise consent? There's a million ways this can get very hazy very fast.
  - detaro 6y ago
    Reasonable expectation of privacy applies by default to photos in public in Germany (with exceptions at events, public interest/press, ...).
  - Jiocus 6y ago
    You're making a great point here, that I've never heard before in the debate. Not only in the specific issue of the article, but public life in general. I think the argument is that drunks did consent, in the same spirit as a drunk driver carry a responsibility. Still, going too far might be harassment. Guardians are responsible for making choices for minors until they can make those choices themselves.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
kybernetyk 6y ago
What happened to freedom of the press?
- phendrenad2 6y ago
  This is a good point and I don't know why you're being downvoted. When an individual with a cellphone no longer counts as "press" you're just edging closer to governments getting to select who gets to be called "press" and gets the corresponding privileges.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- nicbou 6y ago
  It is superseded by people's right to privacy, at least in Germany.

46 points by mrweasel 6y ago

kardos 6y ago

We are not far from cameras performing facial recognition and refusing to take photos of those on a "no photo list".

Gravyness 6y ago
If big smartphone companies like google or apple decided they could do this literally tomorrow.

blueking 6y ago

The rationale over decency and empathy for victims is a cover. What this does is prevent government workers from the accountability cellphone video can provide. Soon enough those QR codes will be on uniforms of emergency workers, and you won't be able to document incidents similar to George Floyd's death.

estaseuropano 6y ago
You are applying your views and preconceptions to this situation without understanding the cultural context. Privacy rights are very strong in Germany and most people hate gawkers/voyeurs that take photos in such situations. Similarly as it is an offense to name either suspect or victim of a crime in the media, while in America that is common practice. And courts have leeway - the justice system is not perfect but if you take a film to show an officer/medical staff abusing someone no court will punish you for that.
- blueking 6y ago
  Sure but you won't be able to take the video, because the QR code will shut down your cell phone camera. Government workers need to be accountable and transparent. No hiding from the cameras in public service. Passing a law that protects the government from accountability under the guise of citizen rights is pretty underhanded, and quite typical of socialism.
  - olliej 6y ago
    That last sentence displayed your preconceptions and biases very clearly. America has an array of similar or even more abusive laws and it’s clearly not socialist.
    - kybernetyk 6y ago
      >and it’s clearly not socialist. [citation needed]
_Microft 6y ago
As a German, this is such a strange thing to read. This basically does not happen here. It is actually newsworthy when a police man had to shoot someone. There were, maybe, twelve people killed by police officers in 2020 (per ~83 million inhabitants!). Beside that, it's also fine to film police officers on duty? You might want to come over for a visit - it is actually really nice here. (And fyi, on top of not being rooted in (German) reality, this was a slippery slope argument anyways.) Edit: fourteen shot and three other deaths, according to [0]. Sadly this included two children and her police officer mother in a murder-suicide situation. That's why I am generally very glad that weapons aren't available to everyone here - you can't shoot yourself if you have no gun. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforc...
- blueking 6y ago
  Oh I'm sorry you're a German living in a utopia? This clearly doesn't apply to you. You should just do whatever your government tells you. Turn off the camera, hand over the guns and get on the train. Everything will be Ok.
  - dang 6y ago
    We've banned this account for posting flamewar comments, like this one. That's not what HN is for. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. But please don't use multiple accounts to break them.
detaro 6y ago
... you do understand that on any phone you can just not click the "QR code" notification? But of course reminding people to not be shitheads is "preventing accountability"...

forgotpwd16 6y ago

I guess default camera apps have built-in QR recognition nowadays? Else this won't have been useful. Asking as I've always used Open Camera, which doesn't, and Barcode Scanner, when I need this functionality.

carlita_express 6y ago
iOS has had this functionality for a while now, but android is a lot more diverse
- bellyfullofbac 6y ago
  According to this https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208843 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208843 , it also just shows a notification on iOS, but I guess a URL that tells the camera holder they're being idiots would be good enough. I just tried scanning a QR Code on 2 Android phones. The first one didn't do anything automatic, the second one detected it and added a button on the camera UI, if you press it, it will show the text (or URL) and you have to press "Open URL" to go there. Interesting how the ad (YouTube video) oversells it, as if the URL loads itself. I wonder if that's how the ad agency (or whoever came up with this idea) sold it to the ambulance operators.
- itslennysfault 6y ago
  The default camera on my android does this plus way more. It attempts to do OCR. So if I point it at a QR code it'll parse it. If there is a url or phone number it'll be clickable. Addresses can open google maps. Etc. It's honestly super impressive, and I noticed it at least 3 years ago on android.
lol768 6y ago
Pointing the phone at a QR code doesn't do anything on my Pixel 5 using the built-in camera app. Further, I can't even scan the colourful QR codes in the video even with a dedicated barcode scanning app. Seems like a useless concept.
- 6y ago

JorgeGT 6y ago

Knights Hospitaller: from escorting pilgrims in 1099 Jerusalem to cleverly thwarting modern smartphones' cameras in 2021. I wonder what they will be doing in Mars in the year 3000.

randomhodler84 6y ago

Translated: “But gawking is not a trivial offense. Since January 1, 2021, a law has been in force that punishes photographing or filming an accident with a prison term of up to two years. With their action, the Johanniter show the drastic consequences and dangers of the greed for sensation and explain the punishments.“ I find this very heavy handed. What harm is simply photographing an accident scene, as long as you are not causing disruption. There was a recent case in .au where a guy filmed a several cops dying from a truck accident and taunting them (they were trying to give him a ticket when hit by another truck driver). He was sentenced to 10 months for breaking public decency.

bbu 6y ago
> what harm is simply photographing an accident scene, as long as you are not causing disruption Because it always causes disruption.
ajcp 6y ago
I agree it does come off as extreme, but I can understand the desire to provide society with some reasonable expectation of privacy in a public space when someone might no longer be able to consent to being in public. Sure, it's part of the inherent risk calculation when we venture out or interact with public space, but at the same time if I can no longer remove myself from that space when I want to achieve some privacy I think it's reasonable that society change the context of the space. At that point I would think that laws pertaining to the violation of privacy (like those regarding peeping-toms) should apply. That being said, and going back to the "no longer consent to being in public", what about drunks, or children who cannot legally exercise consent? There's a million ways this can get very hazy very fast.
- detaro 6y ago
  Reasonable expectation of privacy applies by default to photos in public in Germany (with exceptions at events, public interest/press, ...).
- Jiocus 6y ago
  You're making a great point here, that I've never heard before in the debate. Not only in the specific issue of the article, but public life in general. I think the argument is that drunks did consent, in the same spirit as a drunk driver carry a responsibility. Still, going too far might be harassment. Guardians are responsible for making choices for minors until they can make those choices themselves.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

kybernetyk 6y ago

What happened to freedom of the press?

phendrenad2 6y ago
This is a good point and I don't know why you're being downvoted. When an individual with a cellphone no longer counts as "press" you're just edging closer to governments getting to select who gets to be called "press" and gets the corresponding privileges.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
nicbou 6y ago
It is superseded by people's right to privacy, at least in Germany.