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White “progressives” have not made Omar (or Tlaib) the face of anything, nor does Omar pretend to speak for all Muslims (or all Somali refugees for that matter)

White “progressives” have not made Omar (or Tlaib) the face of anything, nor does Omar pretend to speak for all Muslims (or all Somali refugees for that matter). Omar also does not have “extreme” views; she is a mainstream Democrat with mainstream center-left policy positions. Omar gets “amplified” predominantly because Fox News inter al. keep dumping on her all the time, and shrieking about what an “extremist” she is (generally without any reference to specific actions – as I said it’s a pure identity politics thing for them). If you have come to think that Omar is an extremist, ask yourself who keeps telling you that. It seems like you are upset that progressives don’t put a lot of effort into boosting the political influence of Trump supporters. But why ever would they? It’s not progressives’ fault that GOP-aligned media made Muslims the bogeyman du jour after 2001 and amped racist people up into believing that Muslim = terrorist, to the point that conservative Muslims can’t get anywhere in GOP politics. As for CNN: CNN is a center-right pro-establishment pro-corporate media outlet that does some good journalism but like all cable news also fills hours every day with bloviating pundits and sensationalized nonsense. People should stop watching cable news so much.

rayiner 5y ago
> White “progressives” have not made Omar (or Tlaib) the face of anything, nor does Omar pretend to speak for all Muslims (or all Somali refugees for that matter). Omar also does not have “extreme” views; she is a mainstream Democrat with mainstream center-left policy positions. Not even Democrats think she’s a “mainstream Democrat.” Political she’s squarely in the progressive wing. But my point was theological. She has extreme views on social issues recognized by virtually no American Muslim scholars. I didn’t form any opinions of Omar from watching “Fox News.” I’m a longtime Democrat, from a Muslim country, who started watching Fox News during the Trump era because I was sick of progressives trading on the moral authority of purporting to represent Muslims while amplifying people like Omar whose views are highly unrepresentative of Muslims. Progressives shouldn’t amplify the voices of moderate and conservative Muslims. They should stop acting like they represent “people of color” when the progressive wing of the Democratic Party is as white as the Republican Party.
- jacobolus 5y ago
  > theological. She has extreme views on social issues recognized by virtually no American Muslim scholars She does not purport to be a religious scholar or an authority on religion... Her politics seem broadly comparable to the majority of young Muslims (say, born > 1980) I have met in cosmopolitan American cities. These tend to be secularized and at least roughly share the values of their non-Muslim peers. Should such people not be allowed to participate in the political process? I don’t understand at all where you are going with this line of criticism. You think young Muslims should be forced to have the same views on e.g. women’s rights, LGBT rights, inter-ethnic relationships, and reproductive health that their immigrant parents and grandparents had? You want secularized Muslims to stop wearing headscarves? You think Muslim-American politicians should ask Saudi clerics to decide their political positions? ...?
  - rayiner 5y ago
    > Her politics seem broadly comparable to the majority of young Muslims (say, born > 1980) I have met in cosmopolitan American cities. Which represents a very small fraction of all American Muslims. Also, note that in “cosmopolitan cities” you’re probably not interacting with a representative cross section of Muslim Americans. > Should such people not be allowed to participate in the political process? This is the third post where you try to turn it back to the politician, when I repeatedly make clear I’m talking about the media. These people are welcome to their politics. My problem is with the white people who control how Muslims are portrayed politically. Whenever you see a panel of Muslims speaking on issues, for example, they are always selected to agree with white progressive views. They never sound like my mom or aunts.
    - jacobolus 5y ago
      There is a strong selection bias involved here, but it is not the one you claim. The selection bias is: people who care strongly about perceived injustices and political failures devote their time and attention to politics, and people who devote their time and attention to politics (especially listening to a broad range of people in their communities) end up learning about what isn’t working for people and how people are suffering. Then those political actors (organizers, activists, political staffers, policy analysts, campaign staff, journalists, NGO staff, ...) put effort into sharing their message and ideas and some e.g. end up getting elected. If large numbers of people who “sound like your mom and aunts” get heavily involved in their local and regional political process, some of them will end up with their faces on cable news or whatever. It’s not like typical media outlets dial random telephone numbers until they hit on interview subjects who match the ideology of some secret cabal. For better or worse though, in general older first-generation immigrants (of whatever background) are less involved in politics than more established groups. This comes down substantially to their own preferences about what to spend their time on, as well as cultural comfort/fluency, etc.

rayiner 5y ago

> White “progressives” have not made Omar (or Tlaib) the face of anything, nor does Omar pretend to speak for all Muslims (or all Somali refugees for that matter). Omar also does not have “extreme” views; she is a mainstream Democrat with mainstream center-left policy positions. Not even Democrats think she’s a “mainstream Democrat.” Political she’s squarely in the progressive wing. But my point was theological. She has extreme views on social issues recognized by virtually no American Muslim scholars. I didn’t form any opinions of Omar from watching “Fox News.” I’m a longtime Democrat, from a Muslim country, who started watching Fox News during the Trump era because I was sick of progressives trading on the moral authority of purporting to represent Muslims while amplifying people like Omar whose views are highly unrepresentative of Muslims. Progressives shouldn’t amplify the voices of moderate and conservative Muslims. They should stop acting like they represent “people of color” when the progressive wing of the Democratic Party is as white as the Republican Party.

jacobolus 5y ago
> theological. She has extreme views on social issues recognized by virtually no American Muslim scholars She does not purport to be a religious scholar or an authority on religion... Her politics seem broadly comparable to the majority of young Muslims (say, born > 1980) I have met in cosmopolitan American cities. These tend to be secularized and at least roughly share the values of their non-Muslim peers. Should such people not be allowed to participate in the political process? I don’t understand at all where you are going with this line of criticism. You think young Muslims should be forced to have the same views on e.g. women’s rights, LGBT rights, inter-ethnic relationships, and reproductive health that their immigrant parents and grandparents had? You want secularized Muslims to stop wearing headscarves? You think Muslim-American politicians should ask Saudi clerics to decide their political positions? ...?
- rayiner 5y ago
  > Her politics seem broadly comparable to the majority of young Muslims (say, born > 1980) I have met in cosmopolitan American cities. Which represents a very small fraction of all American Muslims. Also, note that in “cosmopolitan cities” you’re probably not interacting with a representative cross section of Muslim Americans. > Should such people not be allowed to participate in the political process? This is the third post where you try to turn it back to the politician, when I repeatedly make clear I’m talking about the media. These people are welcome to their politics. My problem is with the white people who control how Muslims are portrayed politically. Whenever you see a panel of Muslims speaking on issues, for example, they are always selected to agree with white progressive views. They never sound like my mom or aunts.
  - jacobolus 5y ago
    There is a strong selection bias involved here, but it is not the one you claim. The selection bias is: people who care strongly about perceived injustices and political failures devote their time and attention to politics, and people who devote their time and attention to politics (especially listening to a broad range of people in their communities) end up learning about what isn’t working for people and how people are suffering. Then those political actors (organizers, activists, political staffers, policy analysts, campaign staff, journalists, NGO staff, ...) put effort into sharing their message and ideas and some e.g. end up getting elected. If large numbers of people who “sound like your mom and aunts” get heavily involved in their local and regional political process, some of them will end up with their faces on cable news or whatever. It’s not like typical media outlets dial random telephone numbers until they hit on interview subjects who match the ideology of some secret cabal. For better or worse though, in general older first-generation immigrants (of whatever background) are less involved in politics than more established groups. This comes down substantially to their own preferences about what to spend their time on, as well as cultural comfort/fluency, etc.