6 ms·

Yeah empty threats all around. If only there was a way for google to follow suit. Personally this is enough of a feature for me to switch to an iphone as my nex

Yeah empty threats all around. If only there was a way for google to follow suit. Personally this is enough of a feature for me to switch to an iphone as my next phone. And I've been an android user from the start. Even enough to advocate for it as well.

lamontcg 5y ago
firefox + facebook container
- websites3434 5y ago
  The fact you even have to go to such lengths, and that a mainstream browser even developed such a feature is such a red flag. It's like taking Tums after ever meal. There's something wrong there, and I hope users are taking a hard look at those hoops they jump through and determining whether it's really worth it or not.
  - lamontcg 5y ago
    I'd love to never touch facebook again, but my 80 year old mother uses it and won't give it up because its how she stays in touch with all her friends, and I'm kind of stuck with using it to communicate with her. I also suspect that through browser fingerprinting that facebook can track everyone across the web anyway, particularly people who run a lot of customization on their desktop (O/S, graphics card, fonts, config settings, etc) that shows up in the fingerprint. If you're visiting sites which cause you to make requests to facebook servers you're leaking information to them, even if you've deleted your facebook account (and they can probably still track who you are).
    - websites3434 5y ago
      >If you're visiting sites which cause you to make requests to facebook servers you're leaking information to them, even if you've deleted your facebook account (and they can probably still track who you are). This is an important point that raises the question of threat model. For me, the threat is not "Facebook can track me," in the same way that my threat model doesn't include state-level actors. Because, let's be real, Facebook is as good as a state-level actor. The threat is in showing me ads or content that modify my behavior. For this reason, I: * Block facebook/insta at the DNS level * Don't have a Facebook account * Block all ads * Block all comment sections, like buttons, etc I know this isn't something everyone can do. I know that there are tons of people out there who find value in Facebook. I just hope they are taking steps to at least block ads and are aware of when the platform is manipulating their emotions through targeted content, and have the sense to walk away from it from time to time. Perhaps that's asking too much, but I'm not going to stop making noise about it, not going to stop telling people they need to watch what they post / look at, because I think the platform is really damaging to people's attention and mental health. For your grandmother -- I doubt it's making her buy stuff (fixed income) and I doubt it's making her turn to rage-tweeting about politics, so it's probably OK. And you're probably OK, too, being someone in tech who knows how this shit impacts people. But everyone else? I just worry, y'know?
      - lamontcg 5y ago
        > For your grandmother mother. I'm old.
fartcannon 5y ago
Certainly made me happy about my wife and mother using iPhones. Maybe they'll start to listen to me :) That said, I think the downside is still the walled garden. If Apple F/OSS their OS and let people modify it, and load applications outside the app store, I'd consider changing. Until then, Lineage without Google apps is still a nicer experience than the walled gardens. For example, the Nexus 6 is still maintained (2014). It even recently got updated to 18.1 which is Android 11! Amazing. Edit: Wow the Note3 and the LG G2 are still supported, too! They're from September 2013!
- ericmay 5y ago
  The walled garden is what makes things like this possible. If there wasn't a walled garden, Facebook would just say "we're shutting down on the Apple App Store, come download the Facebook App from the Facebook App Store" (or some other random third party App Store) and then all of the work Apple is doing to neuter these tracking mechanisms would go right out the window. I view the walled garden as nothing but good. Build the walls higher. Hand me a brick and point me to the ladder.
  - yyyk 5y ago
    At which point almost nobody would download Facebook, just like almost nobody uses anything except the Play Store on Android. Also Apple could easily implement blocks on the OS level. The walled garden just lets Apple siphon 30% alongside anti-competitive practices.
    - ericmay 5y ago
      Until other companies also move to a third party App Store. Why wouldn't they? And I'm fine with Apple siphoning off 30%. Make it 40%! I'd rather developers stop developing for iOS than to see any large changes in the App Store model. There are enough apps as it is.
      - idle_zealot 5y ago
        > Until other companies also move to a third party App Store. Why wouldn't they? While I don’t know the exact reason, this isn’t what’s happened on Android, which has always allowed multiple app stores. Everything mainstream is on Google’s Play Store, and quality FOSS apps get published to F-Droid. My theory is that users shy away from sideloading alternative app stores, even if it’s not very difficult to do so.
cronix 5y ago
> Personally this is enough of a feature for me to switch to an iphone as my next phone. You can accomplish even more by not installing their crap apps to begin with, and have always had that choice. You need google to save you from yourself and this is a compelling enough reason for you to switch phones, even though you're smart and actually know all of what's been going on and how to prevent it, but choose not to?
- coldpie 5y ago
  I already don't use Facebook, but I agree with the parent that Apple's real action towards privacy and against ad-based business models have convinced me to switch from Android to iPhone. Contrast these privacy moves with Google's FLOC. I'd rather support Apple.
  - bozzcl 5y ago
    I made that move earlier this year. TBH, it's not like I trust Apple more than Google or Facebook... but at least for now my interests align better with their business model. That being said, I've been tempted to get a Motorola Razr flip phone just for the sake of nostalgia, though I would have to root it and remove everything related to Google to feel comfortable with it.
    - wyre 5y ago
      What don’t you trust about Apple that equates them to Google or Facebook? I trust them more than Google and FB, but that is certainly a very low bar. I trust that Apple isn’t profiting off my data. It isn’t even close to their business model so it allows them to give their users privacy G and F can’t.
      - bozzcl 5y ago
        I have a general distrust of device manufacturers nowadays. Seeing how far some other devices go (phones and smart TVs especially), I think it's a healthy attitude to have. To give you an example, I recently implemented an allowlist on my firewall so only approved devices can access my WAN. I immediately started seeing frequent dropped packets from my wireless access point (Netgear Nighthawk AX200) and switch (Ubiquiti UniFi 8-port PoE) to Netgear and AWS IPs respectively. While some of that is probably them checking for updates, the volume didn't really seem warranted. Going back to Apple though... sure, that's the exact reason why I switched. They already charge a premium, so they have less of an incentive to pad their quarterly earnings selling data. But they're still a company, still responding to shareholders, and they already collect certain amount of analytics. There's not that much of a jump from there to selling it, so being careful and mistrusting is probably a good thing IMO.
dreamcompiler 5y ago
Or you could delete the FB app and access FB via the phone's browser, which prevents some of FB's nonsense.
- throwaway744678 5y ago
  Or even, don't access Facebook at all? I know, I know, just kidding.
silicon2401 5y ago
Are jailbreaking and custom OSes still a thing on iPhone? I would happily switch to iPhone except the UI is so infuriatingly terrible that it's completely out of the question unless I can replace the UI.
pkulak 5y ago
I've been an Android user since they mostly caught up to Apple in UI (Nexus line, I believe). However, my wife will be getting a new iPhone in two days (hush hush) and I think I'm gonna take her old iPhone for a spin.
BobbyJo 5y ago
Same. Android since day 1, but my next phone will be an iphone. If it makes the reptilians angry, I'm all for it.
rz2k 5y ago
I pay for YouTube, and can't believe people feel their time watching commercials is worth less than $10/month. I'd probably pay more to not be datamined by Google, too. Really I'd even consider creating a FaceBbook account if I could pay them not to use dark patterns. However I imagine there is already a shadow user profile of me, and Facebook is making making more money through sites that leak visitors' information than I'd be willing to pay for Facebook.
- time0ut 5y ago
  I'd happily pay Google to not be data mined and for a guarantee that if one of their algorithms closes my account by mistake I can immediately get an actual person to review and fix it.
tomjen3 5y ago
I have been researching making the same transition (I also own an M1 now so they will work nicely together), but I am going to wait until they release the new phones in September. I just wish I didn't have to choose between control and privacy. Heck maybe I should just give up on the entire concept of phones.

lamontcg 5y ago

firefox + facebook container

websites3434 5y ago
The fact you even have to go to such lengths, and that a mainstream browser even developed such a feature is such a red flag. It's like taking Tums after ever meal. There's something wrong there, and I hope users are taking a hard look at those hoops they jump through and determining whether it's really worth it or not.
- lamontcg 5y ago
  I'd love to never touch facebook again, but my 80 year old mother uses it and won't give it up because its how she stays in touch with all her friends, and I'm kind of stuck with using it to communicate with her. I also suspect that through browser fingerprinting that facebook can track everyone across the web anyway, particularly people who run a lot of customization on their desktop (O/S, graphics card, fonts, config settings, etc) that shows up in the fingerprint. If you're visiting sites which cause you to make requests to facebook servers you're leaking information to them, even if you've deleted your facebook account (and they can probably still track who you are).
  - websites3434 5y ago
    >If you're visiting sites which cause you to make requests to facebook servers you're leaking information to them, even if you've deleted your facebook account (and they can probably still track who you are). This is an important point that raises the question of threat model. For me, the threat is not "Facebook can track me," in the same way that my threat model doesn't include state-level actors. Because, let's be real, Facebook is as good as a state-level actor. The threat is in showing me ads or content that modify my behavior. For this reason, I: * Block facebook/insta at the DNS level * Don't have a Facebook account * Block all ads * Block all comment sections, like buttons, etc I know this isn't something everyone can do. I know that there are tons of people out there who find value in Facebook. I just hope they are taking steps to at least block ads and are aware of when the platform is manipulating their emotions through targeted content, and have the sense to walk away from it from time to time. Perhaps that's asking too much, but I'm not going to stop making noise about it, not going to stop telling people they need to watch what they post / look at, because I think the platform is really damaging to people's attention and mental health. For your grandmother -- I doubt it's making her buy stuff (fixed income) and I doubt it's making her turn to rage-tweeting about politics, so it's probably OK. And you're probably OK, too, being someone in tech who knows how this shit impacts people. But everyone else? I just worry, y'know?
    - lamontcg 5y ago
      > For your grandmother mother. I'm old.

fartcannon 5y ago

Certainly made me happy about my wife and mother using iPhones. Maybe they'll start to listen to me :) That said, I think the downside is still the walled garden. If Apple F/OSS their OS and let people modify it, and load applications outside the app store, I'd consider changing. Until then, Lineage without Google apps is still a nicer experience than the walled gardens. For example, the Nexus 6 is still maintained (2014). It even recently got updated to 18.1 which is Android 11! Amazing. Edit: Wow the Note3 and the LG G2 are still supported, too! They're from September 2013!

ericmay 5y ago
The walled garden is what makes things like this possible. If there wasn't a walled garden, Facebook would just say "we're shutting down on the Apple App Store, come download the Facebook App from the Facebook App Store" (or some other random third party App Store) and then all of the work Apple is doing to neuter these tracking mechanisms would go right out the window. I view the walled garden as nothing but good. Build the walls higher. Hand me a brick and point me to the ladder.
- yyyk 5y ago
  At which point almost nobody would download Facebook, just like almost nobody uses anything except the Play Store on Android. Also Apple could easily implement blocks on the OS level. The walled garden just lets Apple siphon 30% alongside anti-competitive practices.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    Until other companies also move to a third party App Store. Why wouldn't they? And I'm fine with Apple siphoning off 30%. Make it 40%! I'd rather developers stop developing for iOS than to see any large changes in the App Store model. There are enough apps as it is.
    - idle_zealot 5y ago
      > Until other companies also move to a third party App Store. Why wouldn't they? While I don’t know the exact reason, this isn’t what’s happened on Android, which has always allowed multiple app stores. Everything mainstream is on Google’s Play Store, and quality FOSS apps get published to F-Droid. My theory is that users shy away from sideloading alternative app stores, even if it’s not very difficult to do so.

cronix 5y ago

> Personally this is enough of a feature for me to switch to an iphone as my next phone. You can accomplish even more by not installing their crap apps to begin with, and have always had that choice. You need google to save you from yourself and this is a compelling enough reason for you to switch phones, even though you're smart and actually know all of what's been going on and how to prevent it, but choose not to?

coldpie 5y ago
I already don't use Facebook, but I agree with the parent that Apple's real action towards privacy and against ad-based business models have convinced me to switch from Android to iPhone. Contrast these privacy moves with Google's FLOC. I'd rather support Apple.
- bozzcl 5y ago
  I made that move earlier this year. TBH, it's not like I trust Apple more than Google or Facebook... but at least for now my interests align better with their business model. That being said, I've been tempted to get a Motorola Razr flip phone just for the sake of nostalgia, though I would have to root it and remove everything related to Google to feel comfortable with it.
  - wyre 5y ago
    What don’t you trust about Apple that equates them to Google or Facebook? I trust them more than Google and FB, but that is certainly a very low bar. I trust that Apple isn’t profiting off my data. It isn’t even close to their business model so it allows them to give their users privacy G and F can’t.
    - bozzcl 5y ago
      I have a general distrust of device manufacturers nowadays. Seeing how far some other devices go (phones and smart TVs especially), I think it's a healthy attitude to have. To give you an example, I recently implemented an allowlist on my firewall so only approved devices can access my WAN. I immediately started seeing frequent dropped packets from my wireless access point (Netgear Nighthawk AX200) and switch (Ubiquiti UniFi 8-port PoE) to Netgear and AWS IPs respectively. While some of that is probably them checking for updates, the volume didn't really seem warranted. Going back to Apple though... sure, that's the exact reason why I switched. They already charge a premium, so they have less of an incentive to pad their quarterly earnings selling data. But they're still a company, still responding to shareholders, and they already collect certain amount of analytics. There's not that much of a jump from there to selling it, so being careful and mistrusting is probably a good thing IMO.

dreamcompiler 5y ago

Or you could delete the FB app and access FB via the phone's browser, which prevents some of FB's nonsense.

throwaway744678 5y ago
Or even, don't access Facebook at all? I know, I know, just kidding.

silicon2401 5y ago

Are jailbreaking and custom OSes still a thing on iPhone? I would happily switch to iPhone except the UI is so infuriatingly terrible that it's completely out of the question unless I can replace the UI.

pkulak 5y ago

I've been an Android user since they mostly caught up to Apple in UI (Nexus line, I believe). However, my wife will be getting a new iPhone in two days (hush hush) and I think I'm gonna take her old iPhone for a spin.

BobbyJo 5y ago

Same. Android since day 1, but my next phone will be an iphone. If it makes the reptilians angry, I'm all for it.

rz2k 5y ago

I pay for YouTube, and can't believe people feel their time watching commercials is worth less than $10/month. I'd probably pay more to not be datamined by Google, too. Really I'd even consider creating a FaceBbook account if I could pay them not to use dark patterns. However I imagine there is already a shadow user profile of me, and Facebook is making making more money through sites that leak visitors' information than I'd be willing to pay for Facebook.

time0ut 5y ago
I'd happily pay Google to not be data mined and for a guarantee that if one of their algorithms closes my account by mistake I can immediately get an actual person to review and fix it.

tomjen3 5y ago

I have been researching making the same transition (I also own an M1 now so they will work nicely together), but I am going to wait until they release the new phones in September. I just wish I didn't have to choose between control and privacy. Heck maybe I should just give up on the entire concept of phones.