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> I get it, it's hard to believe because it's easy to think of Amazon as all-powerful. This has nothing to do with thinking Amazon is all-powerful, and everyth

> I get it, it's hard to believe because it's easy to think of Amazon as all-powerful. This has nothing to do with thinking Amazon is all-powerful, and everything to do with thinking they don't care because it makes them money. Amazon's revenue is clearly skyrocketing and they make a ton of money because of the marketplace. It seems obvious to me they made the decision to put revenue/profits over long-term customer support. You believe that Amazon wants to solve the problem. I believe Amazon doesn't want to solve the problem, because they make more money not solving it now. And talking about the long-term vision of a company whose founding CEO just stepped down is pretty meaningless. I'll be more blunt. Amazon saying they care about fake reviews is like Facebook saying they care about privacy. They make money by lying about it, not fixing it. Facebook clearly hasn't suffered the long term damage of years of horrible PR using their stock price as a metric (you know, the only metric that really matters), and Amazon likely won't either (in fact they've had just as much bad PR and look at them now).

Xeronate 5y ago
If you had ever worked at Amazon you would find it very difficult to believe what you do. Short term solutions aren’t part of the companies culture. Andy Jassy has been around since the beginning and has the same core values as Jeff. Not to mention your argument could equally be made with Jeff as the CEO. It just isn’t how the company works.
- Judgmentality 5y ago
  I have never worked at Amazon, but I have heard enough horrible things from people that used to work there that make me believe not everybody shares your opinion. In fact, those other people went out of their way to convince me not to take a job there. I am glad you seem to enjoy working at Amazon, or at least have a respect for the culture. I've never been there so I can't comment on it, but I've heard lots of horrible things about the culture there. And lately the complaints have been shifting towards Amazon thinking more and more about short-term profits instead of the big picture. All I can say is not everybody agrees with you.
  - Scramblejams 5y ago
    I don't speak for my employer, which is Amazon. FWIW, single data point, YMMV, etc., but where I work (under AWS) I have never seen behavior that is exploitive of the customer like you're talking about to be encouraged or allowed. Yes, AWS may be different from how things are done in retail, and we're huge so I'm sure it does happen here and there -- but from my admittedly limited vantage point, Bezos' heavy emphases on long-term thinking and earning the customer's trust have taken deep root everywhere I've been able to see. Doesn't mean peeps always get it right, some choices are difficult, compromises have to be made, there are outliers, etc., but still, it's there. I've just never seen cheap thinking around customers, so to speak, and I really like that aspect of working where I do. If that ever changes in a broad way, that'll be the beginning of the end of Amazon's dominance.
    - Judgmentality 5y ago
      > If that ever changes in a broad way, that'll be the beginning of the end of Amazon's dominance. And I'm saying I think this is already happening, and the most talented senior employees are already starting to leave. This is going to take years, maybe decades to unravel. But I've already shifted away from buying things on Amazon because the experience has become significantly worse for me and I'm better off buying elsewhere. You're welcome to disagree, but I think Amazon is no longer about value creation but value extraction. And quite frankly it doesn't matter if you feel differently as an employee, because that's how I feel as a customer.
      - spenczar5 5y ago
        It's funny, you and I arrive at the same conclusion from different paths. You believe Amazon is so bad at removing fraud because they are greedy and evil and are happy to have it. I believe Amazon is so bad at removing fraud because it's beyond their capabilities, and that nobody knows how to ensure trustworthy information on the internet. But we arrive at the same spot: I don't really buy from Amazon anymore either for anything where the quality matters, because I can't trust anything on there. I use Chewy for pet stuff, Newegg or Monoprice for electronic stuff, Lee Valley for gardening stuff - etc. In a way, I'm more pessimistic than you: I think good intentions wouldn't even help.
- andreilys 5y ago
  What about the short term solution of PIP culture? Sure you get short term results because colleagues are competing against one another to not get into the PIP meat grinder, but inevitably it leads to burnout and people leaving. Not to mention Amazon’s reputation in tech is pretty low b/c everyone knows about this management by PIP culture
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
sosborn 5y ago
> they make a ton of money because of the marketplace Would that go away once the shitty reviews go away? I'm not convinced it would. The economic impact would be on shitty sellers as they would lose revenue, but I suspect a lot of that revenue would just go to good products.
Nasrudith 5y ago
Think about that initial paragraph for a moment. You assume it is because it makes them money but you also assume it is a choice on their part - that they could do something about it that works. That is basically the same thing as all powerful in this context. It is the same pattern of sinisterization in the whole "Big Tech Bad" propaganda push.
marmot777 5y ago
Well said.

Xeronate 5y ago

If you had ever worked at Amazon you would find it very difficult to believe what you do. Short term solutions aren’t part of the companies culture. Andy Jassy has been around since the beginning and has the same core values as Jeff. Not to mention your argument could equally be made with Jeff as the CEO. It just isn’t how the company works.

Judgmentality 5y ago
I have never worked at Amazon, but I have heard enough horrible things from people that used to work there that make me believe not everybody shares your opinion. In fact, those other people went out of their way to convince me not to take a job there. I am glad you seem to enjoy working at Amazon, or at least have a respect for the culture. I've never been there so I can't comment on it, but I've heard lots of horrible things about the culture there. And lately the complaints have been shifting towards Amazon thinking more and more about short-term profits instead of the big picture. All I can say is not everybody agrees with you.
- Scramblejams 5y ago
  I don't speak for my employer, which is Amazon. FWIW, single data point, YMMV, etc., but where I work (under AWS) I have never seen behavior that is exploitive of the customer like you're talking about to be encouraged or allowed. Yes, AWS may be different from how things are done in retail, and we're huge so I'm sure it does happen here and there -- but from my admittedly limited vantage point, Bezos' heavy emphases on long-term thinking and earning the customer's trust have taken deep root everywhere I've been able to see. Doesn't mean peeps always get it right, some choices are difficult, compromises have to be made, there are outliers, etc., but still, it's there. I've just never seen cheap thinking around customers, so to speak, and I really like that aspect of working where I do. If that ever changes in a broad way, that'll be the beginning of the end of Amazon's dominance.
  - Judgmentality 5y ago
    > If that ever changes in a broad way, that'll be the beginning of the end of Amazon's dominance. And I'm saying I think this is already happening, and the most talented senior employees are already starting to leave. This is going to take years, maybe decades to unravel. But I've already shifted away from buying things on Amazon because the experience has become significantly worse for me and I'm better off buying elsewhere. You're welcome to disagree, but I think Amazon is no longer about value creation but value extraction. And quite frankly it doesn't matter if you feel differently as an employee, because that's how I feel as a customer.
    - spenczar5 5y ago
      It's funny, you and I arrive at the same conclusion from different paths. You believe Amazon is so bad at removing fraud because they are greedy and evil and are happy to have it. I believe Amazon is so bad at removing fraud because it's beyond their capabilities, and that nobody knows how to ensure trustworthy information on the internet. But we arrive at the same spot: I don't really buy from Amazon anymore either for anything where the quality matters, because I can't trust anything on there. I use Chewy for pet stuff, Newegg or Monoprice for electronic stuff, Lee Valley for gardening stuff - etc. In a way, I'm more pessimistic than you: I think good intentions wouldn't even help.
andreilys 5y ago
What about the short term solution of PIP culture? Sure you get short term results because colleagues are competing against one another to not get into the PIP meat grinder, but inevitably it leads to burnout and people leaving. Not to mention Amazon’s reputation in tech is pretty low b/c everyone knows about this management by PIP culture
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

sosborn 5y ago

> they make a ton of money because of the marketplace Would that go away once the shitty reviews go away? I'm not convinced it would. The economic impact would be on shitty sellers as they would lose revenue, but I suspect a lot of that revenue would just go to good products.

Nasrudith 5y ago

Think about that initial paragraph for a moment. You assume it is because it makes them money but you also assume it is a choice on their part - that they could do something about it that works. That is basically the same thing as all powerful in this context. It is the same pattern of sinisterization in the whole "Big Tech Bad" propaganda push.

marmot777 5y ago

Well said.