That's the issue though, you can't really learn the format without doing work in it. There needs to be a "Oh, pushback, let me listen then change things" that

That's the issue though, you can't really learn the format without doing work in it. There needs to be a "Oh, pushback, let me listen then change things" that many people lack when they're not experts in the area. That said, there are people who listen exceedingly well when they're not experts and are a pleasure to work with.