4 ms·

Considering the bug report has lots of examples of why they need SSD or at least some other solution (libgtk doesn't work for all the use cases, e.g. vulkan, li

Considering the bug report has lots of examples of why they need SSD or at least some other solution (libgtk doesn't work for all the use cases, e.g. vulkan, libdecoration doesn't look "native"), also including constructive feedback, but the gnome devs close it with reply "Enough spam for today. Locking the issue.", I consider them to be quite the jerks indeed.

akvadrako 5y ago
If you don't care about drawing decorations I don't see why you would care if it looks native. It can never really look or behave natively on Gnome since client-side decorations are more than a boarder and window buttons. It's also about having an integrated toolbar and more draggable area.
- freshair 5y ago
  > "If you don't care about drawing decorations I don't see why you would care if it looks native." Don't you have this completely backwards? If I want my application to have special custom decorations, then it makes sense for my application to draw the decorations. But if I want my application to have the standard decorations of the system, why should I want my application draw them? GNOME supporting SSDs would not diminish the ability of GNOME's applications to use CSDs. So objections about the utility of CSDs imply a false dichotomy.
zxzax 5y ago
>libgtk doesn't work for all the use cases, e.g. vulkan, libdecoration doesn't look "native" The solution there would be to fix gtk to support vulkan, and to fix libdecoration so it looks better. >I consider them to be quite the jerks indeed. Please stop, this is assuming bad faith and it's not helpful. The mutter bug tracker is an inappropriate place to give this unrelated feedback about this, when those issues you talked about are problems in libgtk and libdecoration. That's why the issue is closed. If you are just going to throw flames and don't want to discuss real technical solutions to the problem then I'm going to end the conversation.
- traverseda 5y ago
  >this is assuming bad faith and it's not helpful. When is it appropriate to assume bad faith? I think assuming bad faith can be very helpful if only because it tells you what to not support or depend on. Saying "you have to use our library and also fix it for free" is a dick move regardless.
  - zxzax 5y ago
    If some person openly said to you that they wanted to hurt you, then I would assume bad faith. Please let someone know if that happens, in most open source projects that would probably be a code of conduct violation. I don't think people who say such things often would be very welcome in GNOME. >I think assuming bad faith can be very helpful if only because it tells you what to not support or depend on. I'm sorry I don't get what you're saying. You can decide not to support or depend on something without (incorrectly) assuming bad faith. This stuff is all open source, nobody can force you to use a library that you're not interested to use.
    - traverseda 5y ago
      > This stuff is all open source, nobody can force you to use a library that you're not interested to use. That's not strictly speaking true, especially when politics and money get involved. Unless you're using a very loose definition of "force" which doesn't include any kind of network effect at all.
      - zxzax 5y ago
        I feel your pain, I wish it were cheaper to develop software, but sadly the costs to compete with Microsoft and Apple are great. GNOME and KDE and such are already giving you all the code basically for free, I don't know what else they could do to help you out there. Accepting all feature requests that come their way is not a solution, because that usually tends to increase development costs even more.

akvadrako 5y ago

If you don't care about drawing decorations I don't see why you would care if it looks native. It can never really look or behave natively on Gnome since client-side decorations are more than a boarder and window buttons. It's also about having an integrated toolbar and more draggable area.

freshair 5y ago
> "If you don't care about drawing decorations I don't see why you would care if it looks native." Don't you have this completely backwards? If I want my application to have special custom decorations, then it makes sense for my application to draw the decorations. But if I want my application to have the standard decorations of the system, why should I want my application draw them? GNOME supporting SSDs would not diminish the ability of GNOME's applications to use CSDs. So objections about the utility of CSDs imply a false dichotomy.

zxzax 5y ago

>libgtk doesn't work for all the use cases, e.g. vulkan, libdecoration doesn't look "native" The solution there would be to fix gtk to support vulkan, and to fix libdecoration so it looks better. >I consider them to be quite the jerks indeed. Please stop, this is assuming bad faith and it's not helpful. The mutter bug tracker is an inappropriate place to give this unrelated feedback about this, when those issues you talked about are problems in libgtk and libdecoration. That's why the issue is closed. If you are just going to throw flames and don't want to discuss real technical solutions to the problem then I'm going to end the conversation.

traverseda 5y ago
>this is assuming bad faith and it's not helpful. When is it appropriate to assume bad faith? I think assuming bad faith can be very helpful if only because it tells you what to not support or depend on. Saying "you have to use our library and also fix it for free" is a dick move regardless.
- zxzax 5y ago
  If some person openly said to you that they wanted to hurt you, then I would assume bad faith. Please let someone know if that happens, in most open source projects that would probably be a code of conduct violation. I don't think people who say such things often would be very welcome in GNOME. >I think assuming bad faith can be very helpful if only because it tells you what to not support or depend on. I'm sorry I don't get what you're saying. You can decide not to support or depend on something without (incorrectly) assuming bad faith. This stuff is all open source, nobody can force you to use a library that you're not interested to use.
  - traverseda 5y ago
    > This stuff is all open source, nobody can force you to use a library that you're not interested to use. That's not strictly speaking true, especially when politics and money get involved. Unless you're using a very loose definition of "force" which doesn't include any kind of network effect at all.
    - zxzax 5y ago
      I feel your pain, I wish it were cheaper to develop software, but sadly the costs to compete with Microsoft and Apple are great. GNOME and KDE and such are already giving you all the code basically for free, I don't know what else they could do to help you out there. Accepting all feature requests that come their way is not a solution, because that usually tends to increase development costs even more.