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Electron uses Gtk and Games should use SDL2. They will support CSD, which is work, but it will happen. You could also say that SSD would mean that Mutter needs

by jhasse 5y ago

Electron uses Gtk and Games should use SDL2. They will support CSD, which is work, but it will happen. You could also say that SSD would mean that Mutter needs to do extra work just to satisfy an application designer ego. Btw: I'm a GNOME user who is against SSD.

simion314 5y ago
The issue is that Electron and SDL will fix this 10 years later, old apps will still not work. Same issue with tray icons, GNOME is expecting cross platform apps will use their shirty design OR their users will use only new GNOME apps. >You could also say that SSD would mean that Mutter needs to do extra work just to satisfy an application designer ego Is better that say all the 10 WM implement SSD (maybe as a fallback for old or non native apps) rather then force all toolkits and old apps have to implement this how they think (won't you get apps that will look like XP or OSX because you forced the app to paint the buttons). As a developer myself feels rather stupid not to just provide the SSD for old apps , really feels like "let's make this old and non native apps look and work like shit so people use my cool design. But I could see an argument that GNOME devs are not that competent though, they implemented a shell that will kill all your apps if there is an error in an exception(on wayland)... so incompetence could explain why they are not capable to provide both SSD and CSD too.,
- zxzax 5y ago
  > The issue is that Electron and SDL will fix this 10 years later, old apps will still not work. The SSD in GNOME still works for X11 apps. For now the only path for old apps that need SSD is to continue using the X11 backend in Electron and SDL. For GNOME, SSD was never in the plan with wayland, so this is not breaking compatibility with apps there because it was never supported.
  - phkahler 5y ago
    >> so this is not breaking compatibility with apps there because it was never supported. It's not breaking GTK apps. If they want to say GNOME really only works with GTK apps that's fine and the toolkit will provide the decorations and nobody needs to care which part of the system draws them. But they want to support more than just GTK apps and rightly so.
    - zxzax 5y ago
      From what I have seen, I don't believe they ever intended to support those apps that didn't provide decorations. The move towards CSD was intentional for them and started 10 years ago, and supporting those CSD apps is the primary focus. This wasn't a problem for Qt apps either because Qt does provide decorations.
- jhasse 5y ago
  > The issue is that Electron and SDL will fix this 10 years later, old apps will still not work. Old apps should dynamically link SDL / Gtk+ / Qt so they should work. For other old apps there's Xwayland which still provides SSD in GNOME.

by jhasse 5y ago

simion314 5y ago

The issue is that Electron and SDL will fix this 10 years later, old apps will still not work. Same issue with tray icons, GNOME is expecting cross platform apps will use their shirty design OR their users will use only new GNOME apps. >You could also say that SSD would mean that Mutter needs to do extra work just to satisfy an application designer ego Is better that say all the 10 WM implement SSD (maybe as a fallback for old or non native apps) rather then force all toolkits and old apps have to implement this how they think (won't you get apps that will look like XP or OSX because you forced the app to paint the buttons). As a developer myself feels rather stupid not to just provide the SSD for old apps , really feels like "let's make this old and non native apps look and work like shit so people use my cool design. But I could see an argument that GNOME devs are not that competent though, they implemented a shell that will kill all your apps if there is an error in an exception(on wayland)... so incompetence could explain why they are not capable to provide both SSD and CSD too.,

zxzax 5y ago
> The issue is that Electron and SDL will fix this 10 years later, old apps will still not work. The SSD in GNOME still works for X11 apps. For now the only path for old apps that need SSD is to continue using the X11 backend in Electron and SDL. For GNOME, SSD was never in the plan with wayland, so this is not breaking compatibility with apps there because it was never supported.
- phkahler 5y ago
  >> so this is not breaking compatibility with apps there because it was never supported. It's not breaking GTK apps. If they want to say GNOME really only works with GTK apps that's fine and the toolkit will provide the decorations and nobody needs to care which part of the system draws them. But they want to support more than just GTK apps and rightly so.
  - zxzax 5y ago
    From what I have seen, I don't believe they ever intended to support those apps that didn't provide decorations. The move towards CSD was intentional for them and started 10 years ago, and supporting those CSD apps is the primary focus. This wasn't a problem for Qt apps either because Qt does provide decorations.
jhasse 5y ago
> The issue is that Electron and SDL will fix this 10 years later, old apps will still not work. Old apps should dynamically link SDL / Gtk+ / Qt so they should work. For other old apps there's Xwayland which still provides SSD in GNOME.