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>Apple is disrupting whole economy for apps. I've been wondering why people aren't asking what kind of data is Apple itself collecting? Not only from users, b

>Apple is disrupting whole economy for apps. I've been wondering why people aren't asking what kind of data is Apple itself collecting? Not only from users, but from the marketplace. Shouldn't users also give consent to what they share with Apple? Shouldn't businesses also choose to share info with Apple? This is gave us a sense of "justice as been done", but now we should look deeply into what the gatekeeper is doing, to what benefit, and how balanced it made the playing field. Truth be told, I'm biased because I'm always suspicious of Apple because I always believed that unlike what they preach, they put Apple first above everything else... but I only see them getting an exclusive view of user behavior on their devices.

phoe18 5y ago
> This is gave us a sense of "justice as been done", but now we should look deeply into what the gatekeeper is doing, to what benefit, and how balanced it made the playing field. Interestingly, Apple's Ad tracking doesn't show up under 'Settings > Privacy > Tracking' but instead tucked away at the bottom of the 'Settings > Privacy' menu. Apple's tracking also defaults to opt-out instead of the opt-in route taken for other apps. I am all for providing privacy settings but whats with the double standard?
- vbezhenar 5y ago
  Because Apple collects data in an anonymous manner and will make sure for user to benefit the most from that data, compared to other evil ad companies. /s
- bun_at_work 5y ago
  When you set up an iPhone or other Apple device, you're prompted and asked if you want to share you data with Apple, which makes sense because they make the device and OS.
sumedh 5y ago
> Shouldn't users also give consent to what they share with Apple? You do that when you accept their terms.
- libertine 5y ago
  Do you have an option to not accept those terms and use the software? Similar to what is shown now for the App Tracking?
  - simondotau 5y ago
    Apple's apps have never done what the new App Tracking policy requires your permission to do. Apple doesn't need to ask for your permission in this instance because they're not doing it.
8fingerlouie 5y ago
While I’m sure Apple collects ample (pseudo anonymous) data from their respective stores about patterns, they actually don’t gather that much data about you. For a long time they’ve had an “on device” policy to handling data. Buy a new phone and your frequently visited locations list is empty. Most of their AI stuff only lives on your device. Of course there are limits to what can be handled on your device, but they’re generally pretty open about what happens where. Make no mistake, the privacy stance is a profit maker for Apple, and that’s the real reason they’re doing it. In any case, I’m way more likely to trust Apple with my data than Google or Microsoft. Google and (to some extent) Microsoft has based their business around collecting and/or selling my data, Apple makes a living by selling me hardware and software, and privacy is the one parameter that Apple can compete on that will directly reduce profits of its competitors. https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/A_Day_in_the_Life_of_Your_Data.pdf https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/A_Day_in_the_Life_of_Your... As well as https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-data-collection-stored-request/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-data-collection-stored-r...
- libertine 5y ago
  I do agree with you that it's part of Apple new positioning, that they are a privacy first company, yet I think you missed my point: I'm talking about consent. When you said: >While I’m sure Apple collects ample (pseudo anonymous) data from their respective stores about patterns, they actually don’t gather that much data about you. I don't doubt it, what I meant is that even for that there's no explicit consent in the way they are doing with the Apps on appstore (they probably mix it when you're setting up your account). Because you might have apps that collected even less data then Apple, and they are still subject the user consent message. I can see from the downvotes that this is not a popular opinion, which is odd - I'm just saying that everyone should play by the same rules, else there's an asymmetry that will favor the ones who can circumvent this limitation, which in this case, it's Apple. It's just not coherent, since it's not about collecting a lot, or very little data, it's about users giving explicit consent to share data.
  - simondotau 5y ago
    > everyone should play by the same rules Apple's apps have never done what the App Tracking policy stops App developers from doing. To be clear, this new policy is not about apps tracking their own customers—that's always going to happen. This policy is designed to stop companies like Facebook from tracking your activity across multiple apps on your device. > you might have apps that collected even less data then Apple, and they are still subject the user consent message. The consent requirement has got nothing to do with how much data they're collecting about you, rather with what they're doing with the data that has been collected. > I can see from the downvotes that this is not a popular opinion The downvotes are not because your opinion is unpopular, it's because your opinion is grounded in the aforementioned misunderstandings.
zepto 5y ago
> Shouldn't users also give consent to what they share with Apple? They do. And it has been opt in for much longer than this new change.
simondotau 5y ago
> Shouldn't users also give consent to what they share with Apple? You give consent to share data with a company when you share it with that company. This straightforward relationship isn't an issue so long as the company's use of your data is in line with your expectations. When you want to know what a company's incentives are, look at their financials. Money is the great truth teller. Does Apple have sources of revenue which rely upon use of customers' private data? I'm not aware of any. Now ask the opposite question. Does Apple have a financial incentive to be a good steward of their customers' data? This is a very clear yes, as evidenced by their highlighting of privacy as a distinguishing feature. While it's stupid to trust a company's marketing, it's important to appreciate that Apple have wilfully staked a large part of their reputation on customer privacy. That would have been a monumentally stupid move if they weren't intending to live up to it. > they put Apple first above everything else A weird accusation. Setting aside immutable truths about the motivations of any corporation, Apple has famously placed their customers ahead of many other external concerns. Case in point—where they have actively defied the wishes of the FBI (and similar arms of many world governments) in the implementation of robust on-device encryption and cryptographic security. > I only see them getting an exclusive view of user behavior on their devices. Yes, and? Tell me, who are these other people that should have access to my data? Damn right it should be exclusive to Apple—people are paying them good money to be a trustworthy steward of their data.

phoe18 5y ago

> This is gave us a sense of "justice as been done", but now we should look deeply into what the gatekeeper is doing, to what benefit, and how balanced it made the playing field. Interestingly, Apple's Ad tracking doesn't show up under 'Settings > Privacy > Tracking' but instead tucked away at the bottom of the 'Settings > Privacy' menu. Apple's tracking also defaults to opt-out instead of the opt-in route taken for other apps. I am all for providing privacy settings but whats with the double standard?

vbezhenar 5y ago
Because Apple collects data in an anonymous manner and will make sure for user to benefit the most from that data, compared to other evil ad companies. /s
bun_at_work 5y ago
When you set up an iPhone or other Apple device, you're prompted and asked if you want to share you data with Apple, which makes sense because they make the device and OS.

sumedh 5y ago

> Shouldn't users also give consent to what they share with Apple? You do that when you accept their terms.

libertine 5y ago
Do you have an option to not accept those terms and use the software? Similar to what is shown now for the App Tracking?
- simondotau 5y ago
  Apple's apps have never done what the new App Tracking policy requires your permission to do. Apple doesn't need to ask for your permission in this instance because they're not doing it.

8fingerlouie 5y ago

While I’m sure Apple collects ample (pseudo anonymous) data from their respective stores about patterns, they actually don’t gather that much data about you. For a long time they’ve had an “on device” policy to handling data. Buy a new phone and your frequently visited locations list is empty. Most of their AI stuff only lives on your device. Of course there are limits to what can be handled on your device, but they’re generally pretty open about what happens where. Make no mistake, the privacy stance is a profit maker for Apple, and that’s the real reason they’re doing it. In any case, I’m way more likely to trust Apple with my data than Google or Microsoft. Google and (to some extent) Microsoft has based their business around collecting and/or selling my data, Apple makes a living by selling me hardware and software, and privacy is the one parameter that Apple can compete on that will directly reduce profits of its competitors. https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/A_Day_in_the_Life_of_Your_Data.pdf https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/A_Day_in_the_Life_of_Your... As well as https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-data-collection-stored-request/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-data-collection-stored-r...

libertine 5y ago
I do agree with you that it's part of Apple new positioning, that they are a privacy first company, yet I think you missed my point: I'm talking about consent. When you said: >While I’m sure Apple collects ample (pseudo anonymous) data from their respective stores about patterns, they actually don’t gather that much data about you. I don't doubt it, what I meant is that even for that there's no explicit consent in the way they are doing with the Apps on appstore (they probably mix it when you're setting up your account). Because you might have apps that collected even less data then Apple, and they are still subject the user consent message. I can see from the downvotes that this is not a popular opinion, which is odd - I'm just saying that everyone should play by the same rules, else there's an asymmetry that will favor the ones who can circumvent this limitation, which in this case, it's Apple. It's just not coherent, since it's not about collecting a lot, or very little data, it's about users giving explicit consent to share data.
- simondotau 5y ago
  > everyone should play by the same rules Apple's apps have never done what the App Tracking policy stops App developers from doing. To be clear, this new policy is not about apps tracking their own customers—that's always going to happen. This policy is designed to stop companies like Facebook from tracking your activity across multiple apps on your device. > you might have apps that collected even less data then Apple, and they are still subject the user consent message. The consent requirement has got nothing to do with how much data they're collecting about you, rather with what they're doing with the data that has been collected. > I can see from the downvotes that this is not a popular opinion The downvotes are not because your opinion is unpopular, it's because your opinion is grounded in the aforementioned misunderstandings.

zepto 5y ago

> Shouldn't users also give consent to what they share with Apple? They do. And it has been opt in for much longer than this new change.

simondotau 5y ago

> Shouldn't users also give consent to what they share with Apple? You give consent to share data with a company when you share it with that company. This straightforward relationship isn't an issue so long as the company's use of your data is in line with your expectations. When you want to know what a company's incentives are, look at their financials. Money is the great truth teller. Does Apple have sources of revenue which rely upon use of customers' private data? I'm not aware of any. Now ask the opposite question. Does Apple have a financial incentive to be a good steward of their customers' data? This is a very clear yes, as evidenced by their highlighting of privacy as a distinguishing feature. While it's stupid to trust a company's marketing, it's important to appreciate that Apple have wilfully staked a large part of their reputation on customer privacy. That would have been a monumentally stupid move if they weren't intending to live up to it. > they put Apple first above everything else A weird accusation. Setting aside immutable truths about the motivations of any corporation, Apple has famously placed their customers ahead of many other external concerns. Case in point—where they have actively defied the wishes of the FBI (and similar arms of many world governments) in the implementation of robust on-device encryption and cryptographic security. > I only see them getting an exclusive view of user behavior on their devices. Yes, and? Tell me, who are these other people that should have access to my data? Damn right it should be exclusive to Apple—people are paying them good money to be a trustworthy steward of their data.