5 ms·

As a non-USA citizen it seems to me that Americans are really into self ownership, if you're successful that's because you pulled yourself up by the bootstraps,

As a non-USA citizen it seems to me that Americans are really into self ownership, if you're successful that's because you pulled yourself up by the bootstraps, if you're not it's because you didn't work hard enough. So the person is held 100% accountable for everything they do. It's like the phrase "guns don't kill people, people kill people".

myfavoritedog 5y ago
Liberty and Accountability go hand-in-hand. When you try to decouple them, you decrease Liberty and sometimes make it nonviable.
- syops 5y ago
  What does "Liberty and Accountability" mean in this context? Accountability is quite broad. Can you narrow things down a bit and elaborate? Can you give examples of countries that tried liberty without accountability (as you mean it) and have failed?
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  Seems to me like those with the greatest liberties face the least accountability.
  - myfavoritedog 5y ago
    Yeah, that's because of corruption. Lots of societies and forms of government are workable - whether they lean more socialistic, capitalistic, individualist, collectivist... whatever floats your ideological boat. But add corruption to the mix, and they all go to crap.
- FriedrichN 5y ago
  That seems a false dichotomy to me. As if you have to choose between either radical accountability or absolute dictatorship. Understanding what brings people to do bad things can actually prevent them from happening to a certain degree, simply saying "drugs are bad, m'kay" only condemns the deed and the person. The problem with this way of looking at people is that it assumes we're fully rational beings. This is what neo-liberalism and Christianity share with each other, they assume full free will, the sin belongs to the sinner alone. I get angry just like any other person when someone breaks into my car or my home and I believe they should be punished. But if problems become structural, structural solutions are necessary.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  Accountability doesn’t work when crazies have easy access to military style weapons and routinely attack churches and cinemas full of people. If you truly believe that accountability is all you need then make nukes legal. Because “nukes doesn’t kill people. People kill people” right? Good luck with that.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  How about my Liberty to live my life without being afraid of crazies running around with military style machine guns? And my Liberty to go to church or the cinema without having crazies attacking me with machine guns? The problem with words like “Liberty” is that they mean different things for different people. Your “Liberty” to have access to guns impact my “Liberty” to not get shot by crazy people or people high on drugs.
djoldman 5y ago
There are a lot of Americans and we believe a lot of things that aren't supported by evidence (46% of Americans are very or somewhat worried that someone in their family will become a victim of terrorism [0]). As for bootstraps: we don't all start the race to success on the same starting line. Some work very hard to get where they are and some don't. Unfortunately, my small personal sample size isn't close to representative, but if I had to guess, this is ... slowly getting better? [0] https://news.gallup.com/poll/4909/terrorism-united-states.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/4909/terrorism-united-states.as...
- myfavoritedog 5y ago
  Terrorism misinformation is so passé. COVID misinformation is much more in fashion: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/bill-maher-democrats-misinformed-coronavirus https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/bill-maher-democrats...
deleted 5y ago
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mbrodersen 5y ago
‘Nukes don’t kill people, people kill people”. So following that logic the US should make nukes legal? So that whole cities can be blown up by crazies and not just cinemas and churches? How about taking guns away from crazies so that they only have access to knives and not machine guns?

myfavoritedog 5y ago

Liberty and Accountability go hand-in-hand. When you try to decouple them, you decrease Liberty and sometimes make it nonviable.

syops 5y ago
What does "Liberty and Accountability" mean in this context? Accountability is quite broad. Can you narrow things down a bit and elaborate? Can you give examples of countries that tried liberty without accountability (as you mean it) and have failed?
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
Seems to me like those with the greatest liberties face the least accountability.
- myfavoritedog 5y ago
  Yeah, that's because of corruption. Lots of societies and forms of government are workable - whether they lean more socialistic, capitalistic, individualist, collectivist... whatever floats your ideological boat. But add corruption to the mix, and they all go to crap.
FriedrichN 5y ago
That seems a false dichotomy to me. As if you have to choose between either radical accountability or absolute dictatorship. Understanding what brings people to do bad things can actually prevent them from happening to a certain degree, simply saying "drugs are bad, m'kay" only condemns the deed and the person. The problem with this way of looking at people is that it assumes we're fully rational beings. This is what neo-liberalism and Christianity share with each other, they assume full free will, the sin belongs to the sinner alone. I get angry just like any other person when someone breaks into my car or my home and I believe they should be punished. But if problems become structural, structural solutions are necessary.
mbrodersen 5y ago
Accountability doesn’t work when crazies have easy access to military style weapons and routinely attack churches and cinemas full of people. If you truly believe that accountability is all you need then make nukes legal. Because “nukes doesn’t kill people. People kill people” right? Good luck with that.
mbrodersen 5y ago
How about my Liberty to live my life without being afraid of crazies running around with military style machine guns? And my Liberty to go to church or the cinema without having crazies attacking me with machine guns? The problem with words like “Liberty” is that they mean different things for different people. Your “Liberty” to have access to guns impact my “Liberty” to not get shot by crazy people or people high on drugs.

djoldman 5y ago

There are a lot of Americans and we believe a lot of things that aren't supported by evidence (46% of Americans are very or somewhat worried that someone in their family will become a victim of terrorism [0]). As for bootstraps: we don't all start the race to success on the same starting line. Some work very hard to get where they are and some don't. Unfortunately, my small personal sample size isn't close to representative, but if I had to guess, this is ... slowly getting better? [0] https://news.gallup.com/poll/4909/terrorism-united-states.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/4909/terrorism-united-states.as...

myfavoritedog 5y ago
Terrorism misinformation is so passé. COVID misinformation is much more in fashion: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/bill-maher-democrats-misinformed-coronavirus https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/bill-maher-democrats...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

mbrodersen 5y ago

‘Nukes don’t kill people, people kill people”. So following that logic the US should make nukes legal? So that whole cities can be blown up by crazies and not just cinemas and churches? How about taking guns away from crazies so that they only have access to knives and not machine guns?