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I guess I'll offer a counterpoint here because I was suckered into buying & pushing through this game after reading a hundred comments like this online. Nier A

I guess I'll offer a counterpoint here because I was suckered into buying & pushing through this game after reading a hundred comments like this online. Nier Automata is a game with boring combat that makes you play through largely the same campaign 2.5 times in a row to get the "full story". Gameplay consists of a lot of running around empty levels and bashing health-sponge enemies until they explode, interspersed with mashing the dodge function. I reached the end of the first campaign and was thoroughly disappointed. Comments online said, no, really, you absolutely have to finish the third ending to really experience the game. So I did. In the second playthrough combat gets even worse, because the most efficient way of killing enemies is a boring 2d bullet hell hacking minigame. People talk a lot about the story but it legitimately barely makes sense. If you're a fan of anime-style storytelling I guess you might find it compelling. It is not deep. The much-vaunted philosophical aspects rise to naming some characters & bosses after famous philosophers, and nothing else. Buy it and play it if you want. Maybe you'll enjoy it. But if it doesn't stick after a couple hours, don't continue - really, it does not change or improve at all.

M277 5y ago
>"The much-vaunted philosophical aspects basically rise to naming some characters & bosses after famous philosophers, and basically nothing else." Replying to this is tricky without spoilers, but I genuinely don't understand how you came to this conclusion. Did you really not find anything about the Android's lives to be even remotely philosophical? Or even the multiple playthrough aspect that you hated, what do you think is its point? Honestly, the impression I get is that you didn't really give the game a proper chance, wrote it off early on and played it while you had written it off. It's not for everyone, but your comment is too harsh.
- rjzzleep 5y ago
  I do agree that the whole concept of the story and history is deeply philosophical and in fact apparently NieR:Automata and even NieR:Replicant are only a fraction of the whole story. BUT calling the gameplay boring with lots of running around is a fair statement. NieR:Replicant is worse. And reading through what others have said/shown about previous games in the series is that they're even worse. The gameplay looks beautiful, but it grows only very little at the beginning of the game. After that nothing changes, there is no complexity to it. If you wanted to, you could get by with circling around enemies and pressing two buttons.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - GrumpyYoungMan 5y ago
    > "BUT calling the gameplay boring with lots of running around is a fair statement. NieR:Replicant is worse." Both Niers are RPGs after all, in terms of mechanics, and traditional RPGs are even duller (attack/defend/item/flee menu choices) but still manage to be enjoyable. From that standpoint, the bullet sponge nature of the enemies, being unable to defeat them until the player characters have leveled up enough, and backtracking is understandable. Personally, I found the combat adequate (yes, even Nier:Gestalt) and sufficiently varied to keep things interesting.
    - BlueTemplar 5y ago
      Hmm, isn't Baldur's Gate (2) considered to be a "traditional RPG" any more ?
    - rjzzleep 5y ago
      Don't get me wrong. It's a beautiful game, but I guess I have a completely different understanding of RPGs. Leveling up building up different skills, magic, builds, etc. that are actually necessary to be able to advance to the next stage of the game is my understanding. In the case of NieR you can play through the entire game start to finish with your initial weapon set and drone and it would be fine. And yes, you still assume a characters narrative in this case and you still have to level. Technically yes it is, but then again, I guess our understanding of what used to be RPGs has changed massively over the recent past I would say. EDIT: Just googling around a bit it seems like the correct definition seems to be open world action adventure with RPG elements.
  - M277 5y ago
    Yeah, the combat / gameplay is quite dull (which is a shame because there's a great variety of combos with great animations[1], you're just not incentivised to use them at all), this is something that I agree with. I was only addressing the original comment's final remark. [1]: https://youtu.be/QAU_8GEgSwI https://youtu.be/QAU_8GEgSwI This has all of 2B's moveset and all combos with different weapon sets.
- wk_end 5y ago
  It's philosophical in roughly the same way The Matrix is - whereas that was "Plato's Cave as a sci-fi action movie", NieR is "Existentialism 101 as a sci-fi video game". I liked it a lot more than GP did but if you don't have a high tolerance for anime BS (e.g. can you deal with the fact that the protagonist is a sexy lady robot samurai in a skimpy maid outfit?) or have actually spent any serious time reading philosophy, the anime BS is going to overwhelm and/or the philosophical themes are going to underwhelm.
- inopinatus 5y ago
  Some people demand to be spoonfed their philosophy, do not appreciate being asked to dream it. There was a similar reaction from Europeans confronted with east asian philosophies in previous centuries. The question is, whether to be Leo or H.H., that’s all.
- ahelwer 5y ago
  Looking at my steam profile, I spent 38 hours playing this game. I did many sidequests. There's this weird compulsion among fans to say "you didn't give it a chance", which pushes people to do the other playthroughs, but I spent thirty-eight good-faith hours with this game. There are themes of how people go through inescapable self-destructive cycles of hurting each other or whatever. Let's talk spoilers past this point, then - what are the deeply philosophical themes of this game in your estimation?
  - fpgaminer 5y ago
    SPOILERS: Not the person you're replying to, but > what are the deeply philosophical themes of this game in your estimation? Pascal's story is perhaps the most succinct microcosm of Automata's themes. Pascal starts a village of peaceful machines disconnected from the network. They're trying to start a new life. There's hope of a future without violence; of growth and evolution for the machines instead of an endless cycle of death. But then the cataclysmic events of Automata occur and the machines, fearing a painful, tortured death at the hands of the networked machines, choose to take their own lives. Pascal had taught these machines fear. He(/She/They) is torn by feeling responsible for their deaths, because he is the one that taught them to fear. It is all his fault. He asks you to wipe his memory. He can't bare to live with the pain of knowing what he's done. It's not known how much time has passed between the end of mankind and the events of Automata. It's not known how many times Pascal has started a village, taught his machines fear, watched his children kill themselves, and repeat the cycle. Just like all the other colonies of machines: endlessly repeating a cycle of hope and death. But as the player, you get to choose NOT to wipe Pascal's memory. To let him live on, despite the pain. Through the seemingly endless cycles of pain and death you can choose hope. Hope that maybe, somehow, one day the cycle will break. You choose to push on despite it all. Just like the ending credits. You, the player, have repeated the game OVER and OVER again. The same gameplay. The same story. Repeated endlessly. Not just by you. But by the machines and androids through NieR's history. And by all players who play the game. Repeated again and again. But during the credits you FIGHT past that. You push on. Knowing all the pain, all the characters you've had to watch die repeatedly, all of Yoko Taro's torturous gameplay you've had to suffer through. You, the player, choose to push forward. You hope that by continuing, the cycle will end and you can find a GOOD ending for these characters you care about. The philosophical implications of all this is that NieR: Automata's endless cycles of pain, death, and hope are reflections of human life. Your life isn't unique. Billions of humans, just like you, have come before you, lived their lives of happiness, sadness, pain, hope, and death. Again, and again, and again. To what end? What is the point? Why live on watching all that you love and care for die? And why live on knowing that you, too, will die and others will repeat your cycles? Because by pushing forward despite the pain, despite how many cycles may have come before you and may repeat after, you CHOOSE to continue. You hope that one day, the cycle will break. Things will get better. Knowing everything you choose to fight. As the lyrics of one of the first songs in Automata state so clearly, "This cannot continue. This cannot continue. This cannot continue." > There are themes of how people go through inescapable self-destructive cycles of hurting each other or whatever. So yeah, that's the point. The game is filled with cycles of inescapable death and hurt. 2B cries when she kills 9S, because she's had to do it SO MANY TIMES. It's her fate to continue the cycle of killing 9S. But that's not the point of NieR, and why the last act of Automata is so important. You the player have to suffer through those endless cycles, and repeat the same gameplay, to put you in that frame of mind. So that at the end you can choose to CONTINUE despite it all. You the player don't know that the last ending is hopeful. You're choosing, even though you think the game is all about inescapable self-destruction, because you HOPE for something better. Hope is the overarching theme of Automata. Perseverance in the face of seemingly endless cycles. (And yes, I've repeated my point a number of times, as a reflect of the theme of repetition in Automata :P) There are many other little philosophical ideas scattered throughout Automata. But the above is the main one (in my mind).
- NikolaeVarius 5y ago
  Its bog standard existentialism.
- vmception 5y ago
  OH MY GOD THE ROBOTS THINK THEY ARE HUMAN AND LOOSELY EMULATE EMOTIONS WHAAAAT That's not a spoiler that's a really common trope If you want that, play the much more beautifully rendered Detroit: Become Human, the "spoiler" is in the title There is nothing deep about Nier Automata, there are no shocking revelations The only reason you play this trope is to get a feel for "how" or "when", which this game will pretty much never really get to or explore, just pile on fetch quests and edgelord nihilism appealing to 14 year olds Seriously, if I was 14 I would have really been into this. But I'm not, and I'm not into this.
gambiting 5y ago
I feel exactly the same. Loads of super positive comments and encouragement from friends as "the best game ever made" made me finally play it and I felt so disappointed. The combat especially is just....not fun at all. The bullet hell combat was fun for about 5 minutes and then urghhhhh. I restarted the second playthrough on the lowest possible difficulty just to avoid having to actually play it, all based on the promise of "the game gets fantastic on the 3rd playthrough". Well, it didn't for me, thank you. And I absolutely agree about the story - it's not "deep" in any possible way. If you ever played any sci-fi game ever in your life you can probably guess the "incredible and deeply philosphical" twist in the first playthrough. Maybe if this is your first entry into video games it will blow your mind, but really.....meh. However, I have to agree - the soundtrack is incredible. Some of my friends went to listen to it live performed by the London Orchestra, I wish I went.
egypturnash 5y ago
ugh yes, I wasted so much time on that overhyped piece of shit trying to see what was so great about it. I slogged my way to early in the third story, and felt like I just did not give a single shit about anything that was going on in the story or the systems or anything. I put it down and never got back to it, never even bothered looking up the Real Final True Ending. Everything in the second runthrough that was supposed to be a SHOCKING REVELATION was something I'd suspected since, like, the first boss fight. Nothing in the third was suggesting it would be any different.
odessacubbage 5y ago
the lower difficulties make the combat pretty braindead. hard has some scaling issues especially in the intro but it is much closer to an appropriate level of challenge for an action game, you actually have to use your dodge at least. generally speaking letting yourself buy into the hype for anything is a very good way to walk away disappointed, gaming communities exacerbate this problem greatly as every game is either the 'greatest ever made 10/10 masterpiece' or 'fucking unplayable trash'. if automata was someone's first experience with platinum gameplay/yoko taro writing/yoshida visual design, than i can easily see how they could be blown away be that combination of elements purely by the contrast to what the rest of the industry has by and large provided for the last decade or so. the best possible pitch you could give for automata is that it is first yoko taro story that is actually polished mechanically. alternatively it is the first platinum game where the story is expected to do more than act as window dressing (very fine window dressing, depending on your tastes but it has never really been there for you to think to heavily about if at all)
vvillena 5y ago
My personal opinion is that Nier Automata shines in its artistic design. Character design, combat animation, enemy design, soundtrack, UI (and the fact that it's a meta-UI that also exists within the game), level art design, the camera work and the way forced perspective is used across the game, the choice to use bullet hell mechanics, the way the story is presented (I'd argue that the game hasn't to be "played three times", since the actual story is different even if the first two acts cover the same events), and finally, ending E and the fact that the game breaks the 4th wall and presents the player with the same choice that the main characters go through (arguably the strongest philosophical aspect in the game). It is also a game where all these art considerations take precedence over pure gameplay, and that's what makes it unique.
- ahelwer 5y ago
  How is (spoilers follow) the choice of deleting your save file to help another player through the credits bullet hell the same choice that the main characters go through? Also much of the second playthrough is completely unnecessary for what it was trying to accomplish with the story. The same thing could have been accomplished many different ways without having you retread the entire first half of the game.
  - vvillena 5y ago
    (spoilers spoilers spoilers) The androids make a choice whether to help some remote, future civilization they'll never know, or trying to go on with their own life. Which is kind of the same thing you do when you delete your save: it's almost impossible to complete ending E without outside help, and deleting the save file afterwards is a selfless, sacrificial action. As for the effects of the second act of the game, I was just stating the fact that it's a heavy-handed artistic choice, like more or less everything in the game.
  - fpgaminer 5y ago
    > How is (spoilers follow) the choice of deleting your save file to help another player through the credits bullet hell the same choice that the main characters go through? There are many instances of 2B and 9S "deleting their save file" to help others. For example during the intro sequence both 2B and 9S nuke each other to destroy the giant factory robots. I believe 9S is the one that didn't get backed up before that, so he essentially deleted his "save file" to help save humanity. And just like the main characters it isn't like "death". You can still play again. But you've lost a set of "memories" that you can never get back. Just like 9S will never get back those memories and experiences he lost from the beginning of Automata.
fpgaminer 5y ago
I agree in part with your comment, even though I'm a fan of Automata. The gameplay is just "acceptable", and from the reviews I've read about it most others agree. The combat especially leaves a lot to be desired. As an example, apparently if you die during the intro sequence you have to replay it from the beginning. I forget exactly how long the intro sequence is, but it's probably ~15 minutes. So yeah, imagine re-playing 15 minutes of mostly non-interactive game. Yikes. (But jokes on all the players, you _do_ have to replay that intro sequence multiple times because of the different endings :P) It's the story that makes the game great. So unfortunately if you don't like the story, the game is a _slog_. But most people enjoy the story, which is why the game gets such high praise. And it's definitely a very unique game, which I appreciate. Personally I was lukewarm on the story until I watched some recap and deep analysis videos about in online. I came to appreciate the story much, much more after that. I believe this video did the best job: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EnbSokFpjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EnbSokFpjQ It was just hard for me to connect all the dots, I guess because of the "anime-style storytelling" that you mention. That kind of storytelling requires a lot of effort from the viewer to pick up on small details. They'll hide really huge twists and revelations as easily missed off-handed comments. It also doesn't help that the story feels really weak until you discover all those little details and piece all the twists together. And that doesn't happen until the last act or so. I spent the vast majority of the game thinking X, Y, and Z scenes were really dumb until their context was finally revealed. I can appreciate that type of storytelling. It's different and more complex than I guess most "Western" writing. But it's hard to escape the taint it puts on most of my time with the game. By the way, I'm not writing this to convince you personally to rethink your experience with the game. Like I said, if the story doesn't work for someone, Automata is an awful game. But for anyone else who finds themselves in shoes similar to mine, namely that I'm a dumb-dumb when it comes to trying to understand these subtle and complex stories, it's worth it to read or watch some analysis of NieR. Plus those videos can bring context from the huge amount of other games that people new to NieR (like me) won't have.
albrlot 5y ago
I’d say your last paragraph sums it up best. “Giving X a chance” is not about putting in more hours or effort. There’s no such thing as a game or movie or book or food that can force you to enjoy it. If something doesn’t click (or worse, grinds your gears, as the core gameplay apparently wasn’t your cup of tea) it’s best to quickly write it off as “not for me”, ignore any fans’ continued insistences as inconsequential small talk, and move on with your life. I find that both the praise from fans and criticism from critics tend towards exaggeration and memes that attempt to “justify” emotions of enjoyment/indifference that one shouldn’t be trying to convince others of in the first place, since it’s so fundamentally personal.
canjobear 5y ago
> But if it doesn't stick after a couple hours, don't continue - really, it does not change or improve at all Sound advice for most things. It's hard to think of a less interesting argument than "is X philosophically interesting/deep?" or "is X fun?", the argument going on in the sister comments, because there is such a huge subjective element. For just about any philosophical claim you can discern, you can find dozens of philosophers and works of art making that claim throughout history, so whether it's "interesting" or "deep" is, well, uninteresting as an argument. In the case of Nier:Automata, I liked it a lot. I found the combat very fun, to the point that I got a Tetris effect from it: when I closed my eyes it was like I was playing the game in my head. I found the philosophical angle enjoyable, not because it was making novel propositional claims, but because that philosophy was woven cleverly into engaging gameplay, amazingly evocative music, memorable visuals, and emotionally involving events. But there will be some people that don't get that effect---you're not the only one I know---simply because of taste and experience, and that's ok.
vmception 5y ago
This matches my view of this game. I think the world has gone crazy but then I realize that most of the reviewers are PewDiePie watching 14 year olds and my tastes will have diverged from them. I'm currently trudging through the second play through of the game (Route B) and pretty much hate it, trying to trust everyone that tells me to keep going to get to Route C. It tries to keep you interested in doing the exact same things by adding a cut scene here or there, which you think might be important, or that you think might add to the story, but its just more of this pseudo-deep fan fiction of itself. Way too repetitive. The whole thing feels like a pretext for the Amusement Park area, which is the most fantastic, action packed and well rendered part of the game. The rest of the game being basically gray monotone.
- fpgaminer 5y ago
  IMO, Route B is the worst part of the game. It's the most repetitive and boring. Plus I dislike 9S's gameplay (for the reasons the comment you're replying to point out). The routes after that are better though, and you get to play another character which plays more similar to 2B. So I'd say at the very least tough through Route B. If you can't make it through the routes after that then I won't judge you for dropping the game and watching some Let's Plays or something to get the story instead. EDIT: I'll add: yeah the gameplay of Automata is subpar by modern standards. It has a lot of rough, annoying edges like PS1-era games had. And the graphics are "meh". But please don't judge Automata by those metrics. I think it's a mistake to judge fans of Automata as if they don't know that. People praise Automata for its story, storytelling, and creativity. And, unfortunately, you can't judge the story until you've seen it all. And yes, that's very unfortunate, because some will come away from the game without the whole picture and have a dim view of the game and thus its fans.
  - vmception 5y ago
    > People praise Automata for its story, storytelling, and creativity. So I can't judge the story so I'll reserve judgement. and I can't judge the ps2-era graphics because you say not to, even though people commend that as well. and I don't find it that creative either, am I supposed to say other fans know that too? There are some compelling parts that I enjoy, I am just miffed how it doesn't really come together or have anything that isn't really expected. There are some sequences (ie. amusement park to village in route A) that are epic, but then it just doesn't do much with it. its like "oh okay, they just explained what was immediately apparent" alright I'll keep going. I know what Route C is because many others have explained it in other forums, and I'm looking forward to it. There are routes after C though?
sdgasg 5y ago
Thank you, I am glad I am not the only one who felt this way. I did enjoy the game and finished it 3 times but all the hype had set my expectations really high. To me it was okay game with interesting storyline but not really amazing.

M277 5y ago

>"The much-vaunted philosophical aspects basically rise to naming some characters & bosses after famous philosophers, and basically nothing else." Replying to this is tricky without spoilers, but I genuinely don't understand how you came to this conclusion. Did you really not find anything about the Android's lives to be even remotely philosophical? Or even the multiple playthrough aspect that you hated, what do you think is its point? Honestly, the impression I get is that you didn't really give the game a proper chance, wrote it off early on and played it while you had written it off. It's not for everyone, but your comment is too harsh.

rjzzleep 5y ago
I do agree that the whole concept of the story and history is deeply philosophical and in fact apparently NieR:Automata and even NieR:Replicant are only a fraction of the whole story. BUT calling the gameplay boring with lots of running around is a fair statement. NieR:Replicant is worse. And reading through what others have said/shown about previous games in the series is that they're even worse. The gameplay looks beautiful, but it grows only very little at the beginning of the game. After that nothing changes, there is no complexity to it. If you wanted to, you could get by with circling around enemies and pressing two buttons.
- deleted 5y ago
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- GrumpyYoungMan 5y ago
  > "BUT calling the gameplay boring with lots of running around is a fair statement. NieR:Replicant is worse." Both Niers are RPGs after all, in terms of mechanics, and traditional RPGs are even duller (attack/defend/item/flee menu choices) but still manage to be enjoyable. From that standpoint, the bullet sponge nature of the enemies, being unable to defeat them until the player characters have leveled up enough, and backtracking is understandable. Personally, I found the combat adequate (yes, even Nier:Gestalt) and sufficiently varied to keep things interesting.
  - BlueTemplar 5y ago
    Hmm, isn't Baldur's Gate (2) considered to be a "traditional RPG" any more ?
  - rjzzleep 5y ago
    Don't get me wrong. It's a beautiful game, but I guess I have a completely different understanding of RPGs. Leveling up building up different skills, magic, builds, etc. that are actually necessary to be able to advance to the next stage of the game is my understanding. In the case of NieR you can play through the entire game start to finish with your initial weapon set and drone and it would be fine. And yes, you still assume a characters narrative in this case and you still have to level. Technically yes it is, but then again, I guess our understanding of what used to be RPGs has changed massively over the recent past I would say. EDIT: Just googling around a bit it seems like the correct definition seems to be open world action adventure with RPG elements.
- M277 5y ago
  Yeah, the combat / gameplay is quite dull (which is a shame because there's a great variety of combos with great animations[1], you're just not incentivised to use them at all), this is something that I agree with. I was only addressing the original comment's final remark. [1]: https://youtu.be/QAU_8GEgSwI https://youtu.be/QAU_8GEgSwI This has all of 2B's moveset and all combos with different weapon sets.
wk_end 5y ago
It's philosophical in roughly the same way The Matrix is - whereas that was "Plato's Cave as a sci-fi action movie", NieR is "Existentialism 101 as a sci-fi video game". I liked it a lot more than GP did but if you don't have a high tolerance for anime BS (e.g. can you deal with the fact that the protagonist is a sexy lady robot samurai in a skimpy maid outfit?) or have actually spent any serious time reading philosophy, the anime BS is going to overwhelm and/or the philosophical themes are going to underwhelm.
inopinatus 5y ago
Some people demand to be spoonfed their philosophy, do not appreciate being asked to dream it. There was a similar reaction from Europeans confronted with east asian philosophies in previous centuries. The question is, whether to be Leo or H.H., that’s all.
ahelwer 5y ago
Looking at my steam profile, I spent 38 hours playing this game. I did many sidequests. There's this weird compulsion among fans to say "you didn't give it a chance", which pushes people to do the other playthroughs, but I spent thirty-eight good-faith hours with this game. There are themes of how people go through inescapable self-destructive cycles of hurting each other or whatever. Let's talk spoilers past this point, then - what are the deeply philosophical themes of this game in your estimation?
- fpgaminer 5y ago
  SPOILERS: Not the person you're replying to, but > what are the deeply philosophical themes of this game in your estimation? Pascal's story is perhaps the most succinct microcosm of Automata's themes. Pascal starts a village of peaceful machines disconnected from the network. They're trying to start a new life. There's hope of a future without violence; of growth and evolution for the machines instead of an endless cycle of death. But then the cataclysmic events of Automata occur and the machines, fearing a painful, tortured death at the hands of the networked machines, choose to take their own lives. Pascal had taught these machines fear. He(/She/They) is torn by feeling responsible for their deaths, because he is the one that taught them to fear. It is all his fault. He asks you to wipe his memory. He can't bare to live with the pain of knowing what he's done. It's not known how much time has passed between the end of mankind and the events of Automata. It's not known how many times Pascal has started a village, taught his machines fear, watched his children kill themselves, and repeat the cycle. Just like all the other colonies of machines: endlessly repeating a cycle of hope and death. But as the player, you get to choose NOT to wipe Pascal's memory. To let him live on, despite the pain. Through the seemingly endless cycles of pain and death you can choose hope. Hope that maybe, somehow, one day the cycle will break. You choose to push on despite it all. Just like the ending credits. You, the player, have repeated the game OVER and OVER again. The same gameplay. The same story. Repeated endlessly. Not just by you. But by the machines and androids through NieR's history. And by all players who play the game. Repeated again and again. But during the credits you FIGHT past that. You push on. Knowing all the pain, all the characters you've had to watch die repeatedly, all of Yoko Taro's torturous gameplay you've had to suffer through. You, the player, choose to push forward. You hope that by continuing, the cycle will end and you can find a GOOD ending for these characters you care about. The philosophical implications of all this is that NieR: Automata's endless cycles of pain, death, and hope are reflections of human life. Your life isn't unique. Billions of humans, just like you, have come before you, lived their lives of happiness, sadness, pain, hope, and death. Again, and again, and again. To what end? What is the point? Why live on watching all that you love and care for die? And why live on knowing that you, too, will die and others will repeat your cycles? Because by pushing forward despite the pain, despite how many cycles may have come before you and may repeat after, you CHOOSE to continue. You hope that one day, the cycle will break. Things will get better. Knowing everything you choose to fight. As the lyrics of one of the first songs in Automata state so clearly, "This cannot continue. This cannot continue. This cannot continue." > There are themes of how people go through inescapable self-destructive cycles of hurting each other or whatever. So yeah, that's the point. The game is filled with cycles of inescapable death and hurt. 2B cries when she kills 9S, because she's had to do it SO MANY TIMES. It's her fate to continue the cycle of killing 9S. But that's not the point of NieR, and why the last act of Automata is so important. You the player have to suffer through those endless cycles, and repeat the same gameplay, to put you in that frame of mind. So that at the end you can choose to CONTINUE despite it all. You the player don't know that the last ending is hopeful. You're choosing, even though you think the game is all about inescapable self-destruction, because you HOPE for something better. Hope is the overarching theme of Automata. Perseverance in the face of seemingly endless cycles. (And yes, I've repeated my point a number of times, as a reflect of the theme of repetition in Automata :P) There are many other little philosophical ideas scattered throughout Automata. But the above is the main one (in my mind).
NikolaeVarius 5y ago
Its bog standard existentialism.
vmception 5y ago
OH MY GOD THE ROBOTS THINK THEY ARE HUMAN AND LOOSELY EMULATE EMOTIONS WHAAAAT That's not a spoiler that's a really common trope If you want that, play the much more beautifully rendered Detroit: Become Human, the "spoiler" is in the title There is nothing deep about Nier Automata, there are no shocking revelations The only reason you play this trope is to get a feel for "how" or "when", which this game will pretty much never really get to or explore, just pile on fetch quests and edgelord nihilism appealing to 14 year olds Seriously, if I was 14 I would have really been into this. But I'm not, and I'm not into this.

gambiting 5y ago

I feel exactly the same. Loads of super positive comments and encouragement from friends as "the best game ever made" made me finally play it and I felt so disappointed. The combat especially is just....not fun at all. The bullet hell combat was fun for about 5 minutes and then urghhhhh. I restarted the second playthrough on the lowest possible difficulty just to avoid having to actually play it, all based on the promise of "the game gets fantastic on the 3rd playthrough". Well, it didn't for me, thank you. And I absolutely agree about the story - it's not "deep" in any possible way. If you ever played any sci-fi game ever in your life you can probably guess the "incredible and deeply philosphical" twist in the first playthrough. Maybe if this is your first entry into video games it will blow your mind, but really.....meh. However, I have to agree - the soundtrack is incredible. Some of my friends went to listen to it live performed by the London Orchestra, I wish I went.

egypturnash 5y ago

ugh yes, I wasted so much time on that overhyped piece of shit trying to see what was so great about it. I slogged my way to early in the third story, and felt like I just did not give a single shit about anything that was going on in the story or the systems or anything. I put it down and never got back to it, never even bothered looking up the Real Final True Ending. Everything in the second runthrough that was supposed to be a SHOCKING REVELATION was something I'd suspected since, like, the first boss fight. Nothing in the third was suggesting it would be any different.

odessacubbage 5y ago

the lower difficulties make the combat pretty braindead. hard has some scaling issues especially in the intro but it is much closer to an appropriate level of challenge for an action game, you actually have to use your dodge at least. generally speaking letting yourself buy into the hype for anything is a very good way to walk away disappointed, gaming communities exacerbate this problem greatly as every game is either the 'greatest ever made 10/10 masterpiece' or 'fucking unplayable trash'. if automata was someone's first experience with platinum gameplay/yoko taro writing/yoshida visual design, than i can easily see how they could be blown away be that combination of elements purely by the contrast to what the rest of the industry has by and large provided for the last decade or so. the best possible pitch you could give for automata is that it is first yoko taro story that is actually polished mechanically. alternatively it is the first platinum game where the story is expected to do more than act as window dressing (very fine window dressing, depending on your tastes but it has never really been there for you to think to heavily about if at all)

vvillena 5y ago

My personal opinion is that Nier Automata shines in its artistic design. Character design, combat animation, enemy design, soundtrack, UI (and the fact that it's a meta-UI that also exists within the game), level art design, the camera work and the way forced perspective is used across the game, the choice to use bullet hell mechanics, the way the story is presented (I'd argue that the game hasn't to be "played three times", since the actual story is different even if the first two acts cover the same events), and finally, ending E and the fact that the game breaks the 4th wall and presents the player with the same choice that the main characters go through (arguably the strongest philosophical aspect in the game). It is also a game where all these art considerations take precedence over pure gameplay, and that's what makes it unique.

ahelwer 5y ago
How is (spoilers follow) the choice of deleting your save file to help another player through the credits bullet hell the same choice that the main characters go through? Also much of the second playthrough is completely unnecessary for what it was trying to accomplish with the story. The same thing could have been accomplished many different ways without having you retread the entire first half of the game.
- vvillena 5y ago
  (spoilers spoilers spoilers) The androids make a choice whether to help some remote, future civilization they'll never know, or trying to go on with their own life. Which is kind of the same thing you do when you delete your save: it's almost impossible to complete ending E without outside help, and deleting the save file afterwards is a selfless, sacrificial action. As for the effects of the second act of the game, I was just stating the fact that it's a heavy-handed artistic choice, like more or less everything in the game.
- fpgaminer 5y ago
  > How is (spoilers follow) the choice of deleting your save file to help another player through the credits bullet hell the same choice that the main characters go through? There are many instances of 2B and 9S "deleting their save file" to help others. For example during the intro sequence both 2B and 9S nuke each other to destroy the giant factory robots. I believe 9S is the one that didn't get backed up before that, so he essentially deleted his "save file" to help save humanity. And just like the main characters it isn't like "death". You can still play again. But you've lost a set of "memories" that you can never get back. Just like 9S will never get back those memories and experiences he lost from the beginning of Automata.

fpgaminer 5y ago

I agree in part with your comment, even though I'm a fan of Automata. The gameplay is just "acceptable", and from the reviews I've read about it most others agree. The combat especially leaves a lot to be desired. As an example, apparently if you die during the intro sequence you have to replay it from the beginning. I forget exactly how long the intro sequence is, but it's probably ~15 minutes. So yeah, imagine re-playing 15 minutes of mostly non-interactive game. Yikes. (But jokes on all the players, you _do_ have to replay that intro sequence multiple times because of the different endings :P) It's the story that makes the game great. So unfortunately if you don't like the story, the game is a _slog_. But most people enjoy the story, which is why the game gets such high praise. And it's definitely a very unique game, which I appreciate. Personally I was lukewarm on the story until I watched some recap and deep analysis videos about in online. I came to appreciate the story much, much more after that. I believe this video did the best job: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EnbSokFpjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EnbSokFpjQ It was just hard for me to connect all the dots, I guess because of the "anime-style storytelling" that you mention. That kind of storytelling requires a lot of effort from the viewer to pick up on small details. They'll hide really huge twists and revelations as easily missed off-handed comments. It also doesn't help that the story feels really weak until you discover all those little details and piece all the twists together. And that doesn't happen until the last act or so. I spent the vast majority of the game thinking X, Y, and Z scenes were really dumb until their context was finally revealed. I can appreciate that type of storytelling. It's different and more complex than I guess most "Western" writing. But it's hard to escape the taint it puts on most of my time with the game. By the way, I'm not writing this to convince you personally to rethink your experience with the game. Like I said, if the story doesn't work for someone, Automata is an awful game. But for anyone else who finds themselves in shoes similar to mine, namely that I'm a dumb-dumb when it comes to trying to understand these subtle and complex stories, it's worth it to read or watch some analysis of NieR. Plus those videos can bring context from the huge amount of other games that people new to NieR (like me) won't have.

albrlot 5y ago

I’d say your last paragraph sums it up best. “Giving X a chance” is not about putting in more hours or effort. There’s no such thing as a game or movie or book or food that can force you to enjoy it. If something doesn’t click (or worse, grinds your gears, as the core gameplay apparently wasn’t your cup of tea) it’s best to quickly write it off as “not for me”, ignore any fans’ continued insistences as inconsequential small talk, and move on with your life. I find that both the praise from fans and criticism from critics tend towards exaggeration and memes that attempt to “justify” emotions of enjoyment/indifference that one shouldn’t be trying to convince others of in the first place, since it’s so fundamentally personal.

canjobear 5y ago

> But if it doesn't stick after a couple hours, don't continue - really, it does not change or improve at all Sound advice for most things. It's hard to think of a less interesting argument than "is X philosophically interesting/deep?" or "is X fun?", the argument going on in the sister comments, because there is such a huge subjective element. For just about any philosophical claim you can discern, you can find dozens of philosophers and works of art making that claim throughout history, so whether it's "interesting" or "deep" is, well, uninteresting as an argument. In the case of Nier:Automata, I liked it a lot. I found the combat very fun, to the point that I got a Tetris effect from it: when I closed my eyes it was like I was playing the game in my head. I found the philosophical angle enjoyable, not because it was making novel propositional claims, but because that philosophy was woven cleverly into engaging gameplay, amazingly evocative music, memorable visuals, and emotionally involving events. But there will be some people that don't get that effect---you're not the only one I know---simply because of taste and experience, and that's ok.

vmception 5y ago

This matches my view of this game. I think the world has gone crazy but then I realize that most of the reviewers are PewDiePie watching 14 year olds and my tastes will have diverged from them. I'm currently trudging through the second play through of the game (Route B) and pretty much hate it, trying to trust everyone that tells me to keep going to get to Route C. It tries to keep you interested in doing the exact same things by adding a cut scene here or there, which you think might be important, or that you think might add to the story, but its just more of this pseudo-deep fan fiction of itself. Way too repetitive. The whole thing feels like a pretext for the Amusement Park area, which is the most fantastic, action packed and well rendered part of the game. The rest of the game being basically gray monotone.

fpgaminer 5y ago
IMO, Route B is the worst part of the game. It's the most repetitive and boring. Plus I dislike 9S's gameplay (for the reasons the comment you're replying to point out). The routes after that are better though, and you get to play another character which plays more similar to 2B. So I'd say at the very least tough through Route B. If you can't make it through the routes after that then I won't judge you for dropping the game and watching some Let's Plays or something to get the story instead. EDIT: I'll add: yeah the gameplay of Automata is subpar by modern standards. It has a lot of rough, annoying edges like PS1-era games had. And the graphics are "meh". But please don't judge Automata by those metrics. I think it's a mistake to judge fans of Automata as if they don't know that. People praise Automata for its story, storytelling, and creativity. And, unfortunately, you can't judge the story until you've seen it all. And yes, that's very unfortunate, because some will come away from the game without the whole picture and have a dim view of the game and thus its fans.
- vmception 5y ago
  > People praise Automata for its story, storytelling, and creativity. So I can't judge the story so I'll reserve judgement. and I can't judge the ps2-era graphics because you say not to, even though people commend that as well. and I don't find it that creative either, am I supposed to say other fans know that too? There are some compelling parts that I enjoy, I am just miffed how it doesn't really come together or have anything that isn't really expected. There are some sequences (ie. amusement park to village in route A) that are epic, but then it just doesn't do much with it. its like "oh okay, they just explained what was immediately apparent" alright I'll keep going. I know what Route C is because many others have explained it in other forums, and I'm looking forward to it. There are routes after C though?

sdgasg 5y ago

Thank you, I am glad I am not the only one who felt this way. I did enjoy the game and finished it 3 times but all the hype had set my expectations really high. To me it was okay game with interesting storyline but not really amazing.