8 ms·

Holy smokes. 8TB SSD + 128GB RAM + Ryzen 9 for 100 euro a month. Can you get anywhere close to this with AWS or even DO?

by jiofih 5y ago

kuschku 5y ago
Of course not. But that's why the "cloud" (as in the typical DO/AWS/Azure/GCP offerings) are a scam.
- marcinzm 5y ago
  Just because you don't understand the value proposition of something doesn't make it a scam.
  - Retric 5y ago
    AWS is a scam not because it can’t save you money, but because they actively try to trick you into spending more money. That’s practically the definition of a scam. Go to the AWS console and try to answer even simply things like how much did the last hour/day/week cost me? Or how about some notifications if that new service you just added is going to cost vastly more than you where expecting. I know of a few people getting fired after migrating to AWS and it’s not because the company was suddenly saving money.
    - marcinzm 5y ago
      AWs is pretty bad at telling you how much something you're not running will cost if you run it but I've never had any issues knowing what something has cost me in the past. >Go to the AWS console and try to answer even simply things like how much did the last hour/day/week cost me? Click user@account in top right, click My Billing Dashboard, spend this month is on that page in giant font, click Cost Explorer for more granular breakdown (day, service, etc.), click Bill Details for list breakdown of spend by month. >Or how about some notifications if that new service you just added is going to cost vastly more than you where expecting. Billing Dashboard and then Budgets. edit: This assumes you have permissions to see billing details, by default non-root accounts do not which might be why you're confused.
      - Retric 5y ago
        > Click user@account in top right, click My Billing Dashboard, spend this month is on that page in giant font, click Cost Explorer for more granular breakdown (day, service, etc.), click Bill Details for list breakdown of spend by month. Sure, you see a number but I was just talking with someone at AWS who said it you still can’t trust it to be up to date especially across zone boundaries. That means it’s useful when everything is working as expected but can be actively misleading when troubleshooting.
    - whoknew1122 5y ago
      Disclosure: Work at AWS. I've never seen AWS actively try to trick people into spending more money. I've seen Premium Support, product service teams, solutions architects, and account managers all suggest not to use AWS services if it doesn't fit the customer usecase. I've personally recommended non-AWS options for customers who are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Can the billing console be better? Yes. But AWS isn't trying to trick anyone into anything. The console, while it has its troubles, doesn't have dark patterns and pricing is transparent. You pay for what you use, and prices have never decreased. Hell, I know of a specific service that was priced poorly (meaning it wasn't profitable for AWS). Instead of raising prices, AWS ate its hat while rewriting the entire service from scratch to give it better offerings and make it cheaper (both for AWS and customers).
      - wongarsu 5y ago
        > pricing is transparent If pricing is intended to be transparent, then why is it completely absent from the user interface? Transparent pricing would be to tell me how much something costs when I order it, not make me use a different tool or find it in the documentation
        marcinzm 5y ago
        No, no, you're supposed to use their cthulhu inspired pricing tool. I mean, you've got at least a 50/50 chance of figuring out how to use it before you go permanently insane.
        BombNullIsland 5y ago
        If you're so incompetent that you can't estimate your costs, a fixed price microserver built into a dilapidated wooden shanty with no obvious fire protection system is what you should be buying.
      - Retric 5y ago
        I haven’t used AWS in a while but one trick that I recall was enabling service X also enabled sub dependencies. Instantly disabling service X didn’t stop services XYZ which you continued to be billed for. Granted not that expensive, but it still felt like a trap. Other stuff was more debatable, but it just felt like dancing in a mine field.
- heipei 5y ago
  Huge fan of Hetzner, but dedicated servers do not invalidate the value proposition of the cloud. Ordering a server at Hetzner can take anywhere between a few minutes and a few days. Each server has a fixed setup cost of around the monthly rent. They only have two datacenters in Europe. They don't have any auxillary services (databases, queues, scalable object storage, etc.). They are unbeatable for certain use-cases, but the cloud is still valuable for lots of other scenarios.
  - ryanlol 5y ago
    > They only have two datacenters in Europe Nonsense, Hetzner operates like 25 datacenters.
    - heipei 5y ago
      Sorry, let's call it "regions" then, they have multiple DCs in different cities in Germany, but for latency purposes I would consider these part of one region.
  - kuschku 5y ago
    > Ordering a server at Hetzner can take anywhere between a few minutes and a few days At the start of the pandemic, ordering bare metal servers anywhere was faster than getting a new EC2 VM up and running... The cloud doesn't even fulfil the value proposition of the cloud. It's significantly more expensive, and when you actually need the flexibility, none of it is available.
fulmicoton 5y ago
That's amazing pricing O_O (drooling)
heipei 5y ago
The sad story is you can't get anywhere close to this even with rented dedicated servers. As a German I'm happy that we have Hetzner and I use their services extensively. However if I wanted to start deploying things in the US or Asia I'd be forced to go with something like OVH which, while still a lot cheaper than AWS, is still significantly more expensive than Hetzner.
wongarsu 5y ago
On AWS you can't get 128GB RAM on anything for less than $300/month (or nearly $500 on-demand). And to get multiple TB of SSD you need significantly larger instances, north of $1000/month. Similar with DO, the closest equivalent is a 3.52GB SSD, 128GB RAM, 16 vCPU droplet for $1240/month. If you need raw power instead of integration into an extensive service ecosystem, dedicated servers are hard to beat (short of colocating your own hardware, which comes with more headache). And Hetzner is among the best in terms of value/money.

Holy smokes. 8TB SSD + 128GB RAM + Ryzen 9 for 100 euro a month. Can you get anywhere close to this with AWS or even DO?

by jiofih 5y ago

Holy smokes. 8TB SSD + 128GB RAM + Ryzen 9 for 100 euro a month. Can you get anywhere close to this with AWS or even DO?

kuschku 5y ago

Of course not. But that's why the "cloud" (as in the typical DO/AWS/Azure/GCP offerings) are a scam.

marcinzm 5y ago
Just because you don't understand the value proposition of something doesn't make it a scam.
- Retric 5y ago
  AWS is a scam not because it can’t save you money, but because they actively try to trick you into spending more money. That’s practically the definition of a scam. Go to the AWS console and try to answer even simply things like how much did the last hour/day/week cost me? Or how about some notifications if that new service you just added is going to cost vastly more than you where expecting. I know of a few people getting fired after migrating to AWS and it’s not because the company was suddenly saving money.
  - marcinzm 5y ago
    AWs is pretty bad at telling you how much something you're not running will cost if you run it but I've never had any issues knowing what something has cost me in the past. >Go to the AWS console and try to answer even simply things like how much did the last hour/day/week cost me? Click user@account in top right, click My Billing Dashboard, spend this month is on that page in giant font, click Cost Explorer for more granular breakdown (day, service, etc.), click Bill Details for list breakdown of spend by month. >Or how about some notifications if that new service you just added is going to cost vastly more than you where expecting. Billing Dashboard and then Budgets. edit: This assumes you have permissions to see billing details, by default non-root accounts do not which might be why you're confused.
    - Retric 5y ago
      > Click user@account in top right, click My Billing Dashboard, spend this month is on that page in giant font, click Cost Explorer for more granular breakdown (day, service, etc.), click Bill Details for list breakdown of spend by month. Sure, you see a number but I was just talking with someone at AWS who said it you still can’t trust it to be up to date especially across zone boundaries. That means it’s useful when everything is working as expected but can be actively misleading when troubleshooting.
  - whoknew1122 5y ago
    Disclosure: Work at AWS. I've never seen AWS actively try to trick people into spending more money. I've seen Premium Support, product service teams, solutions architects, and account managers all suggest not to use AWS services if it doesn't fit the customer usecase. I've personally recommended non-AWS options for customers who are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Can the billing console be better? Yes. But AWS isn't trying to trick anyone into anything. The console, while it has its troubles, doesn't have dark patterns and pricing is transparent. You pay for what you use, and prices have never decreased. Hell, I know of a specific service that was priced poorly (meaning it wasn't profitable for AWS). Instead of raising prices, AWS ate its hat while rewriting the entire service from scratch to give it better offerings and make it cheaper (both for AWS and customers).
    - wongarsu 5y ago
      > pricing is transparent If pricing is intended to be transparent, then why is it completely absent from the user interface? Transparent pricing would be to tell me how much something costs when I order it, not make me use a different tool or find it in the documentation
      - marcinzm 5y ago
        No, no, you're supposed to use their cthulhu inspired pricing tool. I mean, you've got at least a 50/50 chance of figuring out how to use it before you go permanently insane.
      - BombNullIsland 5y ago
        If you're so incompetent that you can't estimate your costs, a fixed price microserver built into a dilapidated wooden shanty with no obvious fire protection system is what you should be buying.
    - Retric 5y ago
      I haven’t used AWS in a while but one trick that I recall was enabling service X also enabled sub dependencies. Instantly disabling service X didn’t stop services XYZ which you continued to be billed for. Granted not that expensive, but it still felt like a trap. Other stuff was more debatable, but it just felt like dancing in a mine field.
heipei 5y ago
Huge fan of Hetzner, but dedicated servers do not invalidate the value proposition of the cloud. Ordering a server at Hetzner can take anywhere between a few minutes and a few days. Each server has a fixed setup cost of around the monthly rent. They only have two datacenters in Europe. They don't have any auxillary services (databases, queues, scalable object storage, etc.). They are unbeatable for certain use-cases, but the cloud is still valuable for lots of other scenarios.
- ryanlol 5y ago
  > They only have two datacenters in Europe Nonsense, Hetzner operates like 25 datacenters.
  - heipei 5y ago
    Sorry, let's call it "regions" then, they have multiple DCs in different cities in Germany, but for latency purposes I would consider these part of one region.
- kuschku 5y ago
  > Ordering a server at Hetzner can take anywhere between a few minutes and a few days At the start of the pandemic, ordering bare metal servers anywhere was faster than getting a new EC2 VM up and running... The cloud doesn't even fulfil the value proposition of the cloud. It's significantly more expensive, and when you actually need the flexibility, none of it is available.

fulmicoton 5y ago

That's amazing pricing O_O (drooling)

heipei 5y ago

The sad story is you can't get anywhere close to this even with rented dedicated servers. As a German I'm happy that we have Hetzner and I use their services extensively. However if I wanted to start deploying things in the US or Asia I'd be forced to go with something like OVH which, while still a lot cheaper than AWS, is still significantly more expensive than Hetzner.

wongarsu 5y ago

On AWS you can't get 128GB RAM on anything for less than $300/month (or nearly $500 on-demand). And to get multiple TB of SSD you need significantly larger instances, north of $1000/month. Similar with DO, the closest equivalent is a 3.52GB SSD, 128GB RAM, 16 vCPU droplet for $1240/month. If you need raw power instead of integration into an extensive service ecosystem, dedicated servers are hard to beat (short of colocating your own hardware, which comes with more headache). And Hetzner is among the best in terms of value/money.