4 ms·

As a vegetarian maybe I can provide some insight to my position. The reason I consume dairy and eggs is because I think that fundamentally dairy and egg (honey

As a vegetarian maybe I can provide some insight to my position. The reason I consume dairy and eggs is because I think that fundamentally dairy and egg (honey too) production CAN be ethical, whereas I think intentionally killing an animal for food can never be ethical. I'm aware not everyone shares the same opinion - but for me, killing a conscious being for food is not something I want a part in, even if it had a great life before the slaughter. However I should also note that I carefully select dairy and eggs I consume, only from organic, free range farms that I've researched. I choose the vegan option if I can't be sure of the provenance of the dairy/eggs. In practice I'm vegan most of the time and consume very little dairy/egg. I do think I might become some form of vegan in the future though, once I've thought about it more. However, there are a whole bunch of moral inconsistencies in my position. Per calorie, harvesting certain crops probably kills more conscious beings than certain types of fishing. And I'm not sure certain water creatures (bivalves?) even meet the threshold of consciousness, yet I nevertheless would refuse to eat them. There are a lot of difficult moral issues at the edges that I think most people ignore. For me, the overall goal of my diet is to try and find a balance between providing me adequate nutrition for a healthy life while reducing overall negative moral and ecological impact to everything that isn't me.

cies 5y ago
Not to be condescending, but I practiced the exact same mental gymnastics for many years. I used the exact same reasoning ("can be ethical"). I also did select organic/etc eggs and dairy. Buttt... This lead to people believe that I was okay with dairy/eggs, and when others picked for me I had a hard time rejecting. And dairy and egg producing animals are hurt big time: children taken away, caged, slaughtered, selectively bread to have unnatural bodies (hen only lay ~12 eggs per year in nature vs. 300+ for domesticated variants). This is maybe worse than wild animals being killed. After 12+ year vegetarian I went vegan 7+ years ago. I regret not doing so earlier.
- cameronh90 5y ago
  What do you feel about keeping your own hens though? I don't eat many eggs, but I find when I cut out dairy and eggs entirely, I do end up suffering some health problems.
  - prteja11 5y ago
    If you have a few minutes, you should watch this. Backyard eggs are not ethical either. https://youtu.be/7YFz99OT18k https://youtu.be/7YFz99OT18k TL:DR; 1) loss of nutrients and problems for the hen when they lay unnatural amount of eggs. 2) lot of issues to these hens such as loss of calcium, yolk and other items stuck inside and causing infection 3) killing these hens when they stop laying eggs (and therefore the implication that their life was only to serve you and treat them as a resource.) That said, since there are so many vegans out there that don’t have any medical problems, do you think the health problems you face when not eating dairy and eggs are because you are not eating certain food groups? Perhaps a health exam will find out if you have some nutritional deficiencies?
    - daddylongstroke 5y ago
      >That said, since there are so many vegans out there that don’t have any medical problems... Where is the data tracking the health of these 'so many vegans'? All of my lifelong vegan friends ran the gamut of health problems from Hashimoto's Disease and other thyroid-related issues, to severe obesity, seemingly from the highly processed food-like-products they ate. Most though were chronically under-weight, and had to take several supplements. Of course, I only know 8 vegans personally and well enough to comment on.

cies 5y ago

Not to be condescending, but I practiced the exact same mental gymnastics for many years. I used the exact same reasoning ("can be ethical"). I also did select organic/etc eggs and dairy. Buttt... This lead to people believe that I was okay with dairy/eggs, and when others picked for me I had a hard time rejecting. And dairy and egg producing animals are hurt big time: children taken away, caged, slaughtered, selectively bread to have unnatural bodies (hen only lay ~12 eggs per year in nature vs. 300+ for domesticated variants). This is maybe worse than wild animals being killed. After 12+ year vegetarian I went vegan 7+ years ago. I regret not doing so earlier.

cameronh90 5y ago
What do you feel about keeping your own hens though? I don't eat many eggs, but I find when I cut out dairy and eggs entirely, I do end up suffering some health problems.
- prteja11 5y ago
  If you have a few minutes, you should watch this. Backyard eggs are not ethical either. https://youtu.be/7YFz99OT18k https://youtu.be/7YFz99OT18k TL:DR; 1) loss of nutrients and problems for the hen when they lay unnatural amount of eggs. 2) lot of issues to these hens such as loss of calcium, yolk and other items stuck inside and causing infection 3) killing these hens when they stop laying eggs (and therefore the implication that their life was only to serve you and treat them as a resource.) That said, since there are so many vegans out there that don’t have any medical problems, do you think the health problems you face when not eating dairy and eggs are because you are not eating certain food groups? Perhaps a health exam will find out if you have some nutritional deficiencies?
  - daddylongstroke 5y ago
    >That said, since there are so many vegans out there that don’t have any medical problems... Where is the data tracking the health of these 'so many vegans'? All of my lifelong vegan friends ran the gamut of health problems from Hashimoto's Disease and other thyroid-related issues, to severe obesity, seemingly from the highly processed food-like-products they ate. Most though were chronically under-weight, and had to take several supplements. Of course, I only know 8 vegans personally and well enough to comment on.