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The issue with COVID is the precedent of attempts of trying to identify the origin of this new disease being sabotaged for seemingly political reasons (and with

The issue with COVID is the precedent of attempts of trying to identify the origin of this new disease being sabotaged for seemingly political reasons (and with no obvious repercussions). It seems intuitive that knowing the origin of the virus (sample escaping a lab or pure nature) could help prevent similar cases in the future or deal with them more efficiently. Is my intuition wrong here?

astrange 6y ago
Even if it's a natural sample that escaped a lab, cleaning up the lab doesn't necessarily help anything because it's not the actual reservoir of the virus.
- adriancr 6y ago
  it helps avoid the issue in the future... It would mean countries that have labs would either be forced to allow constant audits and reasonable regulations (such as don't have labs in cities) or face isolation. It would also mean quite a heavy political response towards china if it indeed escaped a lab (which is why they're sabotaging everything even if it didn't...)
  - strogonoff 6y ago
    > It would also mean quite a heavy political response towards china if it indeed escaped a lab (which is why they're sabotaging everything even if it didn't...) The threat of such a response to me is part of the problem. This incentivises an insecure player to act counter to the common goal by concealing the facts in order to avoid a scenario of being attacked by other players. In the end we’re all human and mistakes happen. Regulations, audits, this can be implemented transparently for everyone; if that was the end of it and there was no perceived potential of repercussions, perhaps we wouldn’t have this problem. (Not to say this somehow justifies the obstruction of the investigation, but IMO it’s something to keep in mind.)
    - adriancr 6y ago
      The threat is not just external and controllable. Communist party rule will be in big danger if chinese people start blaming it for this clusterfuck. Externally, its not controllable, US invaded 2 countries after 9/11, it would be easy to think that politicians will do something or someone more radical will get elected.
- johncena33 6y ago
  This sort of reasoning seems very ideologically and politically motivated. It's sad that we live in political climate where millions of people died and almost every single person's life in the planet has been affected and it's absolutely okay to make a statement that "no investigation is necessary".
  - astrange 6y ago
    I did not say that. But I am opposed to assuming the most cynical thing must be the truth.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    Other than in your comment where it's apparently a fabricated quote, I don't see anyone saying that no investigation is necessary. My assertion is that where it started is unlikely to yield real solutions because I don't think that's what caused it to turn into a giant and ongoing global crisis. I would like more focus on solutions and I don't think finding someone to pin the blame on is likely to move that needle at all. My life experience suggests that finding a scapegoat tends to do the opposite: After someone's head is on a pike and calls for "justice" have been thereby nominally satisfied, the problem will rage on. Meanwhile, people may make less effort to solve it because they got some sense of satisfaction out of watching heads roll and justice get loudly declared. Putting heads on a pike won't stop the spread of the virus. It's what many people want because millions have died. It's not what I want and it has nothing to do with politics. I want people to live and be healthy and I simply don't think this is how that is most likely to be achieved.
DoreenMichele 6y ago
When antibiotics were first discovered, the world spoke of "the end to disease." Now, we are actively breeding antibiotic resistant infections and having trouble coming with new treatment options for infections once thought to be easily treatable thanks to the miracles of modern medicine. This strikes me as just the latest stage of that process (or the latest chapter in that story).
- himinlomax 6y ago
  You do realize that antibiotics have never been directly effective against viruses, don't you?
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    Yep.
closeparen 6y ago
There's no novelty to or uncertainty about the risk of viruses entering the human population from nature. That's exactly as important to mitigate, whether or not it's what happened in this case. If it turns out to have walked out of a lab, then perhaps it points to a need to harden containment. You can’t cancel virology, because we still need to deal with pathogens from nature.
blackoil 6y ago
It may be true, but isn't very surprising. It came when US-China tensions were already at peak and it was from onset was politicised as 'China virus', followed by political attacks by Trump and racial attacks against Chinese/Asians.
- throwaway8581 6y ago
  It’s almost all black people beating up Asians. I don’t think they’re listening to Trump.
Dah00n 6y ago
I can't read from your comment if you are talking about the PRC or the US political meddling. Given that both sides are as likely to do this for easy brownie points I don't think it matters as we will never have the correct answer: People in the US will at most be told one side while people in the PRC will be told the other. In the end it's just two sides throwing turds, like most politics.
- strogonoff 6y ago
  I think it is really fairly clear that CCP is the side that prevented WHO team from conducting a thorough investigation at suspected ground zero.
  - Dah00n 6y ago
    See you picked a side there. The US has done just as bad as PRC. Different turds but still turds.
    - strogonoff 6y ago
      The US gov obstructed WHO team doing research into the origins of COVID on Chinese soil? How? There are no good and no bad guys, of course, but the topic is a very specific event and concrete facts, so shades and “what about X?” can go elsewhere as far as I’m concerned.

astrange 6y ago

Even if it's a natural sample that escaped a lab, cleaning up the lab doesn't necessarily help anything because it's not the actual reservoir of the virus.

adriancr 6y ago
it helps avoid the issue in the future... It would mean countries that have labs would either be forced to allow constant audits and reasonable regulations (such as don't have labs in cities) or face isolation. It would also mean quite a heavy political response towards china if it indeed escaped a lab (which is why they're sabotaging everything even if it didn't...)
- strogonoff 6y ago
  > It would also mean quite a heavy political response towards china if it indeed escaped a lab (which is why they're sabotaging everything even if it didn't...) The threat of such a response to me is part of the problem. This incentivises an insecure player to act counter to the common goal by concealing the facts in order to avoid a scenario of being attacked by other players. In the end we’re all human and mistakes happen. Regulations, audits, this can be implemented transparently for everyone; if that was the end of it and there was no perceived potential of repercussions, perhaps we wouldn’t have this problem. (Not to say this somehow justifies the obstruction of the investigation, but IMO it’s something to keep in mind.)
  - adriancr 6y ago
    The threat is not just external and controllable. Communist party rule will be in big danger if chinese people start blaming it for this clusterfuck. Externally, its not controllable, US invaded 2 countries after 9/11, it would be easy to think that politicians will do something or someone more radical will get elected.
johncena33 6y ago
This sort of reasoning seems very ideologically and politically motivated. It's sad that we live in political climate where millions of people died and almost every single person's life in the planet has been affected and it's absolutely okay to make a statement that "no investigation is necessary".
- astrange 6y ago
  I did not say that. But I am opposed to assuming the most cynical thing must be the truth.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  Other than in your comment where it's apparently a fabricated quote, I don't see anyone saying that no investigation is necessary. My assertion is that where it started is unlikely to yield real solutions because I don't think that's what caused it to turn into a giant and ongoing global crisis. I would like more focus on solutions and I don't think finding someone to pin the blame on is likely to move that needle at all. My life experience suggests that finding a scapegoat tends to do the opposite: After someone's head is on a pike and calls for "justice" have been thereby nominally satisfied, the problem will rage on. Meanwhile, people may make less effort to solve it because they got some sense of satisfaction out of watching heads roll and justice get loudly declared. Putting heads on a pike won't stop the spread of the virus. It's what many people want because millions have died. It's not what I want and it has nothing to do with politics. I want people to live and be healthy and I simply don't think this is how that is most likely to be achieved.

DoreenMichele 6y ago

When antibiotics were first discovered, the world spoke of "the end to disease." Now, we are actively breeding antibiotic resistant infections and having trouble coming with new treatment options for infections once thought to be easily treatable thanks to the miracles of modern medicine. This strikes me as just the latest stage of that process (or the latest chapter in that story).

himinlomax 6y ago
You do realize that antibiotics have never been directly effective against viruses, don't you?
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  Yep.

closeparen 6y ago

There's no novelty to or uncertainty about the risk of viruses entering the human population from nature. That's exactly as important to mitigate, whether or not it's what happened in this case. If it turns out to have walked out of a lab, then perhaps it points to a need to harden containment. You can’t cancel virology, because we still need to deal with pathogens from nature.

blackoil 6y ago

It may be true, but isn't very surprising. It came when US-China tensions were already at peak and it was from onset was politicised as 'China virus', followed by political attacks by Trump and racial attacks against Chinese/Asians.

throwaway8581 6y ago
It’s almost all black people beating up Asians. I don’t think they’re listening to Trump.

Dah00n 6y ago

I can't read from your comment if you are talking about the PRC or the US political meddling. Given that both sides are as likely to do this for easy brownie points I don't think it matters as we will never have the correct answer: People in the US will at most be told one side while people in the PRC will be told the other. In the end it's just two sides throwing turds, like most politics.

strogonoff 6y ago
I think it is really fairly clear that CCP is the side that prevented WHO team from conducting a thorough investigation at suspected ground zero.
- Dah00n 6y ago
  See you picked a side there. The US has done just as bad as PRC. Different turds but still turds.
  - strogonoff 6y ago
    The US gov obstructed WHO team doing research into the origins of COVID on Chinese soil? How? There are no good and no bad guys, of course, but the topic is a very specific event and concrete facts, so shades and “what about X?” can go elsewhere as far as I’m concerned.