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> Some of them go as far as to apply for a masters program. Where else does a budding CS major with no technical skills but a lot of meaningless accolades go?

> Some of them go as far as to apply for a masters program. Where else does a budding CS major with no technical skills but a lot of meaningless accolades go? You’re just being needlessly smug here. The point of life isn’t to be as technically useful to FAANG as possible. I know lots of people who go on to masters programs because they’re curious about advanced topics in CS (e.g. robotics) that you don’t get to touch on in undergrad. Many are good engineers, but I’m not going to decry the ones who aren’t. For some people, it’s just not their thing, and that’s ok too.

Hydraulix989 5y ago
Not only that, the recall is high, even if the precision is low at these top universities. Several of my classmates are now separate post Series A startup founders (investors similar in stature to to Andreessen invested), another is a professor at a peer institution of MIT heading up a research group in theoretical CS, another created his own cryptocurrency (and it is gaining traction quite rapidly), quite a few YC acceptances from my class, too. By ONLY working at a FAANG-caliber company myself, I am considered one of the "failures" in my graduating class. So yes, while you can knock a few people that gamed the acceptance system ("student"-athletes, legacies, donors, expert box-checkers, blatant cheaters, etc.), at the end of the day, the applicant pool of these schools includes some of the smartest people in the world, and there will be quite a few winners. My advice: Do everything you can to get accepted into the very best university possible. It's in your power if you work hard and love what you do (for me, it was coding for fun). "Failure" here would mean attending a Top 20 university instead of a Top 10 (while largely reaping the very same benefits). My parents were ordinary school teachers, my zip code's average income was below the poverty level, and I was one of the few people in my high school's history to get accepted into a Top 10 university.
- zhdc1 5y ago
  > Do everything you can to get accepted into the very best university possible. It's in your power if you work hard and love what you do (for me, it was coding for fun). "Failure" here would mean attending a Top 20 university instead of a Top 10 (while largely reaping the very same benefits). I agree with the general sentiment, but I think it's worth adding in a couple of caveats. The demand to get into a top university in the US is so high that even if you meet all of the prerequisites, getting accepted into Tier 1 university relies on an uncomfortable and ever growing amount of luck. What people forget is that this dynamic is driven by growing demand, and that an increasing number of qualified applicants are being pushed into lower tier universities. While this isn't an absolute guarantee that the overall quality, and marketability, of these universities will increase, this is, in fact, what has been happening. So yes, work hard, but don't set your goal on achieving a target that is driven as much by random chance as it is by your own effort.
  - SadCanadian 5y ago
    Indeed. As many seek out this opportunity and as they all ramp up their efforts, the participants of the tournament will all look similar in skill and aptitude. Thus, the determining factors will increasingly become luck-based. Everyone that wishes to participate should be made aware that they are signing up for a stress-inducing rat race, and that they better double their effort because, at each step, their competitors get more and more capable. Or, alternatively, seek other options? Maybe try to avoid the race somehow. Since most will be losers, it's probably best to consider alternatives anyway and ask if the prize is even worth winning.
hardwaregeek 5y ago
You're not wrong. I am being rather blithe. However I'd point out that I'm not saying all masters students have no technical skills but a lot of meaningless accolades. I'm saying that a sigificant number of budding CS majors with no technical skills but a lot of meaningless accolades get masters. There's a difference of A -> B versus B -> A.
njkumarr 5y ago
i agree, it seems like a pretty insecure thing to say. he is currently an undergrad so he probably doesn't really realize masters programs can actually help someone's career.

Hydraulix989 5y ago

Not only that, the recall is high, even if the precision is low at these top universities. Several of my classmates are now separate post Series A startup founders (investors similar in stature to to Andreessen invested), another is a professor at a peer institution of MIT heading up a research group in theoretical CS, another created his own cryptocurrency (and it is gaining traction quite rapidly), quite a few YC acceptances from my class, too. By ONLY working at a FAANG-caliber company myself, I am considered one of the "failures" in my graduating class. So yes, while you can knock a few people that gamed the acceptance system ("student"-athletes, legacies, donors, expert box-checkers, blatant cheaters, etc.), at the end of the day, the applicant pool of these schools includes some of the smartest people in the world, and there will be quite a few winners. My advice: Do everything you can to get accepted into the very best university possible. It's in your power if you work hard and love what you do (for me, it was coding for fun). "Failure" here would mean attending a Top 20 university instead of a Top 10 (while largely reaping the very same benefits). My parents were ordinary school teachers, my zip code's average income was below the poverty level, and I was one of the few people in my high school's history to get accepted into a Top 10 university.

zhdc1 5y ago
> Do everything you can to get accepted into the very best university possible. It's in your power if you work hard and love what you do (for me, it was coding for fun). "Failure" here would mean attending a Top 20 university instead of a Top 10 (while largely reaping the very same benefits). I agree with the general sentiment, but I think it's worth adding in a couple of caveats. The demand to get into a top university in the US is so high that even if you meet all of the prerequisites, getting accepted into Tier 1 university relies on an uncomfortable and ever growing amount of luck. What people forget is that this dynamic is driven by growing demand, and that an increasing number of qualified applicants are being pushed into lower tier universities. While this isn't an absolute guarantee that the overall quality, and marketability, of these universities will increase, this is, in fact, what has been happening. So yes, work hard, but don't set your goal on achieving a target that is driven as much by random chance as it is by your own effort.
- SadCanadian 5y ago
  Indeed. As many seek out this opportunity and as they all ramp up their efforts, the participants of the tournament will all look similar in skill and aptitude. Thus, the determining factors will increasingly become luck-based. Everyone that wishes to participate should be made aware that they are signing up for a stress-inducing rat race, and that they better double their effort because, at each step, their competitors get more and more capable. Or, alternatively, seek other options? Maybe try to avoid the race somehow. Since most will be losers, it's probably best to consider alternatives anyway and ask if the prize is even worth winning.

hardwaregeek 5y ago

You're not wrong. I am being rather blithe. However I'd point out that I'm not saying all masters students have no technical skills but a lot of meaningless accolades. I'm saying that a sigificant number of budding CS majors with no technical skills but a lot of meaningless accolades get masters. There's a difference of A -> B versus B -> A.

njkumarr 5y ago

i agree, it seems like a pretty insecure thing to say. he is currently an undergrad so he probably doesn't really realize masters programs can actually help someone's career.