5 ms·

What can ‘The Age of Decadence’ teach us about today? A great deal

22 points by samclemens 5y ago

DubiousPusher 5y ago
> Simple: What Heffer recounts is fascinating in itself, but also eerily familiar... Ever notice how once you buy a car everyone else has it too? Or how when you learn a new word everyone else seems to have just learned it too? Or how when you discover a song it's instantly in TV shows and on the radio like never before? It's almost as if these things are always there, yet sometimes we take notice of them and other times we don't. Weird.
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  Baader-Meinhof phenomenon
- pjmorris 5y ago
  "Once you start looking for confirmation bias you see it everywhere." - Michael Feathers
ObserverNeutral 5y ago
How does this compare to another book on present day Decadence from Ross Douthat I think at least some people in here are familiar with it, it's called: "The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success"
roenxi 5y ago
When exactly is the period of time we're looking to that wasn't an age of decadence? Everyone always seems to be writing about an age of decadence. We've been in an age of decadence since the Dutch East India Company figured out how to generate/relocate enough wealth to Europe that wealthy people could afford to be properly decadent. 1900 was an age of decadence, 1920 was an age of decadence, 1940 was an age of horrors so horrific Europe basically collapsed. 1960s were extremely decadent but it was a bit more broad-based. The 1980s were decadent (I recommend Wolfe's The Bonfire of the Vanities). 2000 was maybe unusually sedate? Probably it was decadent and I didn't notice. 2020 is decadent and I am not surprised. The times don't change all that much.
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
  The 60's had the Vietnam war. I was a child, and with my dad in a pizza parlor. Guys were watching the television, and there were numbers being shown. My dad told me those guys were hoping their number wouldn't show. I still remember the guys drinking beer, but looked miserable.
  - roenxi 5y ago
    Sure. And how would you compare Vietnam to the Middle East wars in terms of cost benefit? I suppose now people get killed with drones so the US death count is lower. Does that make the struggle against terrorism better or worse than against Communism? There are arguments both sides. The risks are actually higher today as far as I can tell, the next big war might be the end of civilisation for a century or more. But what is happening in the world is much the same as ever, just more techy.
- brobdingnagians 5y ago
  Good question. I think all ages have some decadence in them, but it depends on how widespread and to what degree. When people have to earn their wealth instead of gain it by corruption, inheritance, and graft, then they are more careful with it and learn principles of hard work, thrift, and honesty. It is more of the pathway to wealth and power that is promoted by the culture. Sometimes greed and exploitation is promoted, sometimes hard work is promoted and exploitation is diminished. Both always exist, but sometimes one is more dominant. After World War II, there were many people who had to work very hard and wanted to start a family, start a business, and improve their communities; they got an education and tried to do their civic duties. I know a lot of people like that, almost all of the people I know who grew up in that generation are like that. Though the 60s has well publicized decadence, most people in that time period were not like that. They were humble, honest, and hard working people. The culture that we remember most from some decades is the minority culture in that decade, which comes to fruition later, not the vast silence majority who truly made it what it was.
  - DubiousPusher 5y ago

22 points by samclemens 5y ago

> Simple: What Heffer recounts is fascinating in itself, but also eerily familiar... Ever notice how once you buy a car everyone else has it too? Or how when you learn a new word everyone else seems to have just learned it too? Or how when you discover a song it's instantly in TV shows and on the radio like never before? It's almost as if these things are always there, yet sometimes we take notice of them and other times we don't. Weird.

Dracophoenix 5y ago
Baader-Meinhof phenomenon
pjmorris 5y ago
"Once you start looking for confirmation bias you see it everywhere." - Michael Feathers

ObserverNeutral 5y ago

How does this compare to another book on present day Decadence from Ross Douthat I think at least some people in here are familiar with it, it's called: "The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success"

roenxi 5y ago

When exactly is the period of time we're looking to that wasn't an age of decadence? Everyone always seems to be writing about an age of decadence. We've been in an age of decadence since the Dutch East India Company figured out how to generate/relocate enough wealth to Europe that wealthy people could afford to be properly decadent. 1900 was an age of decadence, 1920 was an age of decadence, 1940 was an age of horrors so horrific Europe basically collapsed. 1960s were extremely decadent but it was a bit more broad-based. The 1980s were decadent (I recommend Wolfe's The Bonfire of the Vanities). 2000 was maybe unusually sedate? Probably it was decadent and I didn't notice. 2020 is decadent and I am not surprised. The times don't change all that much.

hellbannedguy 5y ago
The 60's had the Vietnam war. I was a child, and with my dad in a pizza parlor. Guys were watching the television, and there were numbers being shown. My dad told me those guys were hoping their number wouldn't show. I still remember the guys drinking beer, but looked miserable.
- roenxi 5y ago
  Sure. And how would you compare Vietnam to the Middle East wars in terms of cost benefit? I suppose now people get killed with drones so the US death count is lower. Does that make the struggle against terrorism better or worse than against Communism? There are arguments both sides. The risks are actually higher today as far as I can tell, the next big war might be the end of civilisation for a century or more. But what is happening in the world is much the same as ever, just more techy.
brobdingnagians 5y ago
Good question. I think all ages have some decadence in them, but it depends on how widespread and to what degree. When people have to earn their wealth instead of gain it by corruption, inheritance, and graft, then they are more careful with it and learn principles of hard work, thrift, and honesty. It is more of the pathway to wealth and power that is promoted by the culture. Sometimes greed and exploitation is promoted, sometimes hard work is promoted and exploitation is diminished. Both always exist, but sometimes one is more dominant. After World War II, there were many people who had to work very hard and wanted to start a family, start a business, and improve their communities; they got an education and tried to do their civic duties. I know a lot of people like that, almost all of the people I know who grew up in that generation are like that. Though the 60s has well publicized decadence, most people in that time period were not like that. They were humble, honest, and hard working people. The culture that we remember most from some decades is the minority culture in that decade, which comes to fruition later, not the vast silence majority who truly made it what it was.
- DubiousPusher 5y ago