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A few things have changed. College is no longer a tool of social mobility. It is table stakes to keep your current status. If you do not go to college, you are

A few things have changed. College is no longer a tool of social mobility. It is table stakes to keep your current status. If you do not go to college, you are unlikely to stay within the middle class. People may cite plumbers but they don't make a fortune and the physical toll is quite serious. Second, funding has been cut for public universities significantly. A lot of public universities charge tuition that is far more than it was 50-60 years ago. Ironically the expensive private schools are where you want to go for low cost college. They can afford to give full rides to a large portion of their population. Hence the competition. People have gotten better at playing the game. It's like how chess ELO keeps going up. If you did SAT prep, was a nationally ranked fencer/golfer/tennis player, did volunteer work, founded a tech club and had a 95 average in the 80's, you'd have your pick of colleges. Much in the same way your average GM would kill if they were playing back in the 80's. These days you'd still do okay but you'd be competing against a larger pool of people who also did all of these things.

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Smithalicious 5y ago
....... Does being a good golfer really matter for this in the US? I don't like pulling the "haha Americans weird" card but I'm glad my education does not depend on my golf game here in Europe.
- hindsightbias 5y ago
  A lot of business is done on the course and you always need a lawyer or finance person. Those who can golf get on the foursome and get the credit. The less athletic smarter ones get sent the work.
- MagnumOpus 5y ago
  Being a top golfer/fencer/rower/tennis player does not just serve as a signal of dedication and grit (otherwise being in the piano guild or running a 3hr marathon or being lead guitarist in a band would help just as much), but also as a proxy of parents being in the 0.1% of wealth - both because these are upper class pursuits and because they are generally expensive to train and find elite private lessons for. And because of the culture of university endowments/donations, US elite universities massively chase the 0.1% unlike in other parts of the world.
the_only_law 5y ago
> People may cite plumbers but they don't make a fortune and the physical toll is quite serious The “trades” argument has always felt rather disingenuous to me. Sure you can maybe make money in many trades in a state with a strong union culture or if you own your own business (at which point I argue that the “business” aspect is bigger than the “trade”) one, but in most places I’ve lived, you’re making low 5 figures, maybe upper 5 figures if you have decades of work experience.

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Smithalicious 5y ago

....... Does being a good golfer really matter for this in the US? I don't like pulling the "haha Americans weird" card but I'm glad my education does not depend on my golf game here in Europe.

hindsightbias 5y ago
A lot of business is done on the course and you always need a lawyer or finance person. Those who can golf get on the foursome and get the credit. The less athletic smarter ones get sent the work.
MagnumOpus 5y ago
Being a top golfer/fencer/rower/tennis player does not just serve as a signal of dedication and grit (otherwise being in the piano guild or running a 3hr marathon or being lead guitarist in a band would help just as much), but also as a proxy of parents being in the 0.1% of wealth - both because these are upper class pursuits and because they are generally expensive to train and find elite private lessons for. And because of the culture of university endowments/donations, US elite universities massively chase the 0.1% unlike in other parts of the world.

the_only_law 5y ago

> People may cite plumbers but they don't make a fortune and the physical toll is quite serious The “trades” argument has always felt rather disingenuous to me. Sure you can maybe make money in many trades in a state with a strong union culture or if you own your own business (at which point I argue that the “business” aspect is bigger than the “trade”) one, but in most places I’ve lived, you’re making low 5 figures, maybe upper 5 figures if you have decades of work experience.