4 ms·

> And let's not even begin to think what will happen if there were to be evidence that this was an intentional release. But don't you think it's important to k

> And let's not even begin to think what will happen if there were to be evidence that this was an intentional release. But don't you think it's important to know this?

Mountain_Skies 5y ago
It's important to know and it's important not to know. Both paths have mostly negative outcomes. The best path is for it to have been natural, second best is accidental. Intentional is unfathomable and has unlimited downside. We should all hope that's not the case here.
- wbsun 5y ago
  +1, the truth is not important at all. The most scary path would be intentional. I can't think of any other aftermath except for WWIII.
  - FpUser 5y ago
    >"I can't think of any other aftermath except for WWIII." Yeah sure. We've just lost 3 million lives, let's kill the rest of the planet as consolation. As fucked up as our politicians are I hope they are not ready to die.
  - Judgmentality 5y ago
    I'm not saying it wouldn't be scary, but I don't think we should be willfully ignorant. I want to know what happened. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
  - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
    WWIII doesn't make a lot of sense. Nothing about MAD has gone away. And it would then be what, China vs. everybody? How would they even expect to prevail? More likely result is that most of the world would stop trading with them. Nobody would want to see a Made in China tag on anything. Which would in turn be very bad for the economy in China and lead to unrest. So the more likely outcome would be civil war in China.
- thu2111 5y ago
  The article doesn't support the case for it being intentional. Negligence at best. One of the things Wade demonstrates is that China was most likely doing research on CoV viruses in ordinary labs with nothing more than gloves and a white lab coat. The standard photo of Dr Shi is of her in a pressurised bubble suit but that's bsl4 and virologists don't like working in those conditions because it slows them down. So the research grants say the work will be done at much lower safety levels. I guess at some point you enter a gray area where gross negligence and intentionality blur together. But the bioweapon idea shouldn't take hold because it's obviously wrong on its face: the virus has no characteristics that would make for a good weapon of any kind. For it to be intentional would require some kind of theory involving vaccinations but Europe's irrational shutdowns of their own vaccine programmes throws a wrench in the typical vaccine related conspiracy theories.
  - octoberfranklin 5y ago
    I don't believe the lab escape was even remotely deliberate; however: > the virus has no characteristics that would make for a good weapon of any kind. Quite the contrary. The virus clearly favors authoritarian societies whose citizens will let their government weld them into their apartments. Just look at the death rate in China compared to the US and Europe. The only free societies that have come out unscathed are isolated islands (NZ, Taiwan). That said, there is zero chance that the CPC had foreknowledge of this. They got very, very lucky.
    - astrange 5y ago
      I mean, the best way to survive SARS-CoV-2 appears to be "be South Korean". Africa and random Eastern European countries have also been doing okay.
      - MagnumOpus 5y ago
        > Africa and random Eastern European countries have also been doing okay Eastern European countries are topping the death-per-capita charts (and the ones that don't are still topping excess-death charts). African countries are doing "okay" because their ratio of people above age 65 is 2-3% rather than the 20% in Europe, and case numbers are low because they don't have the money to mass test.
- KoftaBob 5y ago
  I see very little incentive for China to release covid intentionally. What could they possibly have gained from that? Mind you, I'm becoming increasingly convinced it was an accidental lab leak due to negligence, so this isn't my attempt at defending China in any way.
  - deltron3030 5y ago
    >What could they possibly have gained from that? Global power shifts to their favor by slowing down democratic economies, sacrificing parts of their own population and economy in the short term. As a collectivist dictatorship tracking every move of its population a pandemic is easier to handle.
    - dsyrk 5y ago
      Isn’t it also becoming more and more suspicious that they appear to literally be almost the best country in the world at controlling it. We are talking multiple orders of magnitude better. I struggle to understand how exactly.
      - KoftaBob 5y ago
        If we're basing that claim on the numbers they're providing on deaths/cases, I don't believe it for a second.
        dsyrk 5y ago
        Except even if they report fake numbers if there was actually significant outbreaks we would hear about it still. It would leak. Something is super odd.
      - deltron3030 5y ago
        People fear consequences for not following quarantine state orders much more I guess. They are just more used to abide an omnipotent state, meaning no public backlash or counter movements like in the west.
  - 5y ago

> And let's not even begin to think what will happen if there were to be evidence that this was an intentional release. But don't you think it's important to know this?

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

It's important to know and it's important not to know. Both paths have mostly negative outcomes. The best path is for it to have been natural, second best is accidental. Intentional is unfathomable and has unlimited downside. We should all hope that's not the case here.

wbsun 5y ago
+1, the truth is not important at all. The most scary path would be intentional. I can't think of any other aftermath except for WWIII.
- FpUser 5y ago
  >"I can't think of any other aftermath except for WWIII." Yeah sure. We've just lost 3 million lives, let's kill the rest of the planet as consolation. As fucked up as our politicians are I hope they are not ready to die.
- Judgmentality 5y ago
  I'm not saying it wouldn't be scary, but I don't think we should be willfully ignorant. I want to know what happened. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
- AnthonyMouse 5y ago
  WWIII doesn't make a lot of sense. Nothing about MAD has gone away. And it would then be what, China vs. everybody? How would they even expect to prevail? More likely result is that most of the world would stop trading with them. Nobody would want to see a Made in China tag on anything. Which would in turn be very bad for the economy in China and lead to unrest. So the more likely outcome would be civil war in China.
thu2111 5y ago
The article doesn't support the case for it being intentional. Negligence at best. One of the things Wade demonstrates is that China was most likely doing research on CoV viruses in ordinary labs with nothing more than gloves and a white lab coat. The standard photo of Dr Shi is of her in a pressurised bubble suit but that's bsl4 and virologists don't like working in those conditions because it slows them down. So the research grants say the work will be done at much lower safety levels. I guess at some point you enter a gray area where gross negligence and intentionality blur together. But the bioweapon idea shouldn't take hold because it's obviously wrong on its face: the virus has no characteristics that would make for a good weapon of any kind. For it to be intentional would require some kind of theory involving vaccinations but Europe's irrational shutdowns of their own vaccine programmes throws a wrench in the typical vaccine related conspiracy theories.
- octoberfranklin 5y ago
  I don't believe the lab escape was even remotely deliberate; however: > the virus has no characteristics that would make for a good weapon of any kind. Quite the contrary. The virus clearly favors authoritarian societies whose citizens will let their government weld them into their apartments. Just look at the death rate in China compared to the US and Europe. The only free societies that have come out unscathed are isolated islands (NZ, Taiwan). That said, there is zero chance that the CPC had foreknowledge of this. They got very, very lucky.
  - astrange 5y ago
    I mean, the best way to survive SARS-CoV-2 appears to be "be South Korean". Africa and random Eastern European countries have also been doing okay.
    - MagnumOpus 5y ago
      > Africa and random Eastern European countries have also been doing okay Eastern European countries are topping the death-per-capita charts (and the ones that don't are still topping excess-death charts). African countries are doing "okay" because their ratio of people above age 65 is 2-3% rather than the 20% in Europe, and case numbers are low because they don't have the money to mass test.
KoftaBob 5y ago
I see very little incentive for China to release covid intentionally. What could they possibly have gained from that? Mind you, I'm becoming increasingly convinced it was an accidental lab leak due to negligence, so this isn't my attempt at defending China in any way.
- deltron3030 5y ago
  >What could they possibly have gained from that? Global power shifts to their favor by slowing down democratic economies, sacrificing parts of their own population and economy in the short term. As a collectivist dictatorship tracking every move of its population a pandemic is easier to handle.
  - dsyrk 5y ago
    Isn’t it also becoming more and more suspicious that they appear to literally be almost the best country in the world at controlling it. We are talking multiple orders of magnitude better. I struggle to understand how exactly.
    - KoftaBob 5y ago
      If we're basing that claim on the numbers they're providing on deaths/cases, I don't believe it for a second.
      - dsyrk 5y ago
        Except even if they report fake numbers if there was actually significant outbreaks we would hear about it still. It would leak. Something is super odd.
    - deltron3030 5y ago
      People fear consequences for not following quarantine state orders much more I guess. They are just more used to abide an omnipotent state, meaning no public backlash or counter movements like in the west.
- 5y ago