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> Donald Trump's election in 2016 has been dissected and explained hundred different ways. But it is undeniable that his victory (despite the fact that he lost

> Donald Trump's election in 2016 has been dissected and explained hundred different ways. But it is undeniable that his victory (despite the fact that he lost the popular vote by approximately three million) is attributable in part to popular resentment against political and business elites It's very deniable. This simply cannot be the explanation. Trump is an elite. He inherited vast amounts of money and vastly underperformed with them. He went to an Ivy, Wharton at UPenn. Sure, he sounds like an idiot, but it's undeniable that he is part of the political, educational, and business elite. The idea that this is a movement against elites when it is literally spearheaded by an elite is just absurd.

jcranmer 5y ago
> The idea that this is a movement against elites when it is literally spearheaded by an elite is just absurd. Yet if you cast your gaze upon history, you'll find that many social movements are indeed led against members of a political class by members of that very same political class. Many leaders of communist revolutions, for example, come from wealthy families and not the oppressed proletariat that they claim to represent. Yes, Trump is an elite. However, he was still able to present himself as being against the elites, especially because he doesn't move in the same social circles as those elites.
- light_hue_1 5y ago
  Trump supporters idolize elites almost exclusively. From Trump, to CEOs, to Giuliani, to Tucker Carlson, to Bill Barr, to Bill O'Reilly, to Ted Cruz, to Josh Hawley. This is not a movement that happens to have a single elite as the head, it is a movement by elites. > Yes, Trump is an elite. However, he was still able to present himself as being against the elites, especially because he doesn't move in the same social circles as those elites. That's just untrue. Trump loves to play up how he is a business person. He loves to play up his successes. He loves to point out how much money he has. He loves to point at all of his houses. He loves to point out how many rich people he knows. He loves to point out how below him other people are. He loves to point out how he moves in those elite circles! Have you watched a Trump rally? It's in large part about how awesome and elite he is. As long as people follow this simple story of the Trump movement being anti-elite, they will keep drawing the wrong conclusions about what to do. The movement is not anti-elite, literally, no one gives a damn that Cruz or Hawley have fancy degrees. It's anti-fact. Trump supporters don't like reality as it is and Trump came out directly to sell them a totally different version of reality that they like a lot more (slavery wasn't all that bad, white people are being oppressed, global warming isn't happening, you never need to switch jobs, etc.). It has nothing to do with elites, it's a basic denial of reality, just as fundamental as flat earth.
  - redis_mlc 5y ago
    The above un-informed screed is amusing, since it illustrates how the left thinks they know what they're talking about and what's best for others, when they have no clue. >> he doesn't move in the same social circles as those elites > That's just untrue. It is true - Trump never was a New York A-lister or B-lister. He could move in business circles, but not social ones. > they will keep drawing the wrong conclusions about what to do. His supporters wanted a wall, and he started construction on it. Harris is supposed to be the immigration czar, yet she's afraid to be photographed near the border, because there's no wall. The CCP engaged in trade violations, and he addressed that with tariffs. Sounds like the right conclusions to me, even obvious. > Trump supporters don't like reality as it is His supporters like that he was willing to be their voice against the establishment in competing globally in the job market against illegal aliens, instead of being dismissed by the left as "deplorables." > you never need to switch jobs For most people, especially as they get older, there is no option for switching jobs - either you get on long-term disability or you're homeless. This one phrase proves how out of touch you are with reality. Sometimes people don't appreciate what they have until it's gone. The Democratic party and White House staff are infested with CCP lobbyists, including Biden's family and his Chief of Staff. Since the CCP has been in a cold war with the US since the 1950s, I hope it turns out well, but Trump/Pompeo had a clear strategy, and Biden doesn't. As an illustration of what the CCP wants, consider rare earths or 5G. China has world-wide monopolies on those - but their goal is world-wide monopolies on everything, regardless of dumping rules. Trump was the best and most productive US President in the past 75 years. Shame on the left for two baseless impeachments that prevented our leader from even accomplishing more. You should know what you're talking about before posting screeds on HN. But then I could say the same thing about most of the left - it would be nice to have paradise on earth, but Marxism doesn't get you there.
hnzix 5y ago
Trump is an elite but paints himself as an everyman here to "drain the swamp". Being elite and a populist are not mutually exclusive if you can fool the public.
refurb 5y ago
As others have mentioned, plenty of revolutions have been led by the elites of society. With Trump the appeal wasn’t because he wasn’t elite, it was because he was perceived as an “out group” of the elite. Whenever he trashed the existing institutions that just further reinforced it.
GPerson 5y ago
The people who voted for him don’t see him as an elite in the same way as other elites. They view him as someone who attained his status by operating outside of their corrupt system; this is what they believe, I’m not saying it’s true.
StandardFuture 5y ago
You are talking about the man himself and not the policies that he was promoting. While both are reasonable things to discuss, you did not actually negate the comment you were responding to.
- light_hue_1 5y ago
  > the policies that he was promoting Name a policy that helped his supporters. His policies either helped elites or hurt the other side, but did not help his base. Virtually the only thing he ever did for his own base was to give out COVID relief support. Caging children at the border? All about hurting the other side that cares about immigrants. Lowering corporate taxes? Help for elites, particularly for those with huge fortunes overseas. Workers saw virtually nothing from the tax cuts. Stopping California from imposing stricter emissions standards? Help for elites. Abortion? His side isn't having them anyway, it's all about hurting others. Stopping student loan forgiveness? Either helping elites or hurting the other side. Maybe both. Revoking the EPA's jurisdiction over waterways so that there is more pollution? Helping elites and hurting his side. Republican states are far more polluted than Democrat ones. The trade war that particularly hurt farmers? We could keep going like this. Virtually all of Trump's policies were designed to help elites, hurt the left, but not to help right. The clearest way to put it, is the way his own supporters put it "He is hurting the wrong people." That's what Trump sells. It's a world divorced from reality where anyone who doesn't agree is an enemy. Trump is not anti-elite. His supporters are not anti-elite. They love elites.
  - StandardFuture 5y ago
    You have completely missed the point despite your temper-tantrum rage ranting. Maybe grow up a little? But first, your entire argument against the grandparent comment is "Trump is rich and had some policies that benefitted some rich people" as equaling that his base is in love with the very concept of political and business elitism? Do you not see how completely nonsensically disingenuous and logically fallacious of an argument that is? Are you actually interested in having an intellectual discussion on the topic or do you want to rant like you are on Twitter, Reddit, or some cable media show? Feel free to head over to one of those if that is your intentions. The primary reason why Trump was elected was because he was the only candidate brave enough to attack both the Bush and Clinton dynastic era policies (on live Television, btw). IIRC, he did replace NAFTA. A lot of Americans actually are interested in the idea of a strong focus on American job availability. Regardless of a subjective judgement on whether Trump mad e progress on this or not, those were the policies he publicly promoted. He also has done other public things like Twitter rants against companies that are moving factories to Mexico, etc. So, his base is entirely aware of all of these things and that is exactly what GP commenter was referring too. And that is exactly what you failed to negate with all of your flamebaiting ranting.

jcranmer 5y ago

> The idea that this is a movement against elites when it is literally spearheaded by an elite is just absurd. Yet if you cast your gaze upon history, you'll find that many social movements are indeed led against members of a political class by members of that very same political class. Many leaders of communist revolutions, for example, come from wealthy families and not the oppressed proletariat that they claim to represent. Yes, Trump is an elite. However, he was still able to present himself as being against the elites, especially because he doesn't move in the same social circles as those elites.

light_hue_1 5y ago
Trump supporters idolize elites almost exclusively. From Trump, to CEOs, to Giuliani, to Tucker Carlson, to Bill Barr, to Bill O'Reilly, to Ted Cruz, to Josh Hawley. This is not a movement that happens to have a single elite as the head, it is a movement by elites. > Yes, Trump is an elite. However, he was still able to present himself as being against the elites, especially because he doesn't move in the same social circles as those elites. That's just untrue. Trump loves to play up how he is a business person. He loves to play up his successes. He loves to point out how much money he has. He loves to point at all of his houses. He loves to point out how many rich people he knows. He loves to point out how below him other people are. He loves to point out how he moves in those elite circles! Have you watched a Trump rally? It's in large part about how awesome and elite he is. As long as people follow this simple story of the Trump movement being anti-elite, they will keep drawing the wrong conclusions about what to do. The movement is not anti-elite, literally, no one gives a damn that Cruz or Hawley have fancy degrees. It's anti-fact. Trump supporters don't like reality as it is and Trump came out directly to sell them a totally different version of reality that they like a lot more (slavery wasn't all that bad, white people are being oppressed, global warming isn't happening, you never need to switch jobs, etc.). It has nothing to do with elites, it's a basic denial of reality, just as fundamental as flat earth.
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  The above un-informed screed is amusing, since it illustrates how the left thinks they know what they're talking about and what's best for others, when they have no clue. >> he doesn't move in the same social circles as those elites > That's just untrue. It is true - Trump never was a New York A-lister or B-lister. He could move in business circles, but not social ones. > they will keep drawing the wrong conclusions about what to do. His supporters wanted a wall, and he started construction on it. Harris is supposed to be the immigration czar, yet she's afraid to be photographed near the border, because there's no wall. The CCP engaged in trade violations, and he addressed that with tariffs. Sounds like the right conclusions to me, even obvious. > Trump supporters don't like reality as it is His supporters like that he was willing to be their voice against the establishment in competing globally in the job market against illegal aliens, instead of being dismissed by the left as "deplorables." > you never need to switch jobs For most people, especially as they get older, there is no option for switching jobs - either you get on long-term disability or you're homeless. This one phrase proves how out of touch you are with reality. Sometimes people don't appreciate what they have until it's gone. The Democratic party and White House staff are infested with CCP lobbyists, including Biden's family and his Chief of Staff. Since the CCP has been in a cold war with the US since the 1950s, I hope it turns out well, but Trump/Pompeo had a clear strategy, and Biden doesn't. As an illustration of what the CCP wants, consider rare earths or 5G. China has world-wide monopolies on those - but their goal is world-wide monopolies on everything, regardless of dumping rules. Trump was the best and most productive US President in the past 75 years. Shame on the left for two baseless impeachments that prevented our leader from even accomplishing more. You should know what you're talking about before posting screeds on HN. But then I could say the same thing about most of the left - it would be nice to have paradise on earth, but Marxism doesn't get you there.

hnzix 5y ago

Trump is an elite but paints himself as an everyman here to "drain the swamp". Being elite and a populist are not mutually exclusive if you can fool the public.

refurb 5y ago

As others have mentioned, plenty of revolutions have been led by the elites of society. With Trump the appeal wasn’t because he wasn’t elite, it was because he was perceived as an “out group” of the elite. Whenever he trashed the existing institutions that just further reinforced it.

GPerson 5y ago

The people who voted for him don’t see him as an elite in the same way as other elites. They view him as someone who attained his status by operating outside of their corrupt system; this is what they believe, I’m not saying it’s true.

StandardFuture 5y ago

You are talking about the man himself and not the policies that he was promoting. While both are reasonable things to discuss, you did not actually negate the comment you were responding to.

light_hue_1 5y ago
> the policies that he was promoting Name a policy that helped his supporters. His policies either helped elites or hurt the other side, but did not help his base. Virtually the only thing he ever did for his own base was to give out COVID relief support. Caging children at the border? All about hurting the other side that cares about immigrants. Lowering corporate taxes? Help for elites, particularly for those with huge fortunes overseas. Workers saw virtually nothing from the tax cuts. Stopping California from imposing stricter emissions standards? Help for elites. Abortion? His side isn't having them anyway, it's all about hurting others. Stopping student loan forgiveness? Either helping elites or hurting the other side. Maybe both. Revoking the EPA's jurisdiction over waterways so that there is more pollution? Helping elites and hurting his side. Republican states are far more polluted than Democrat ones. The trade war that particularly hurt farmers? We could keep going like this. Virtually all of Trump's policies were designed to help elites, hurt the left, but not to help right. The clearest way to put it, is the way his own supporters put it "He is hurting the wrong people." That's what Trump sells. It's a world divorced from reality where anyone who doesn't agree is an enemy. Trump is not anti-elite. His supporters are not anti-elite. They love elites.
- StandardFuture 5y ago
  You have completely missed the point despite your temper-tantrum rage ranting. Maybe grow up a little? But first, your entire argument against the grandparent comment is "Trump is rich and had some policies that benefitted some rich people" as equaling that his base is in love with the very concept of political and business elitism? Do you not see how completely nonsensically disingenuous and logically fallacious of an argument that is? Are you actually interested in having an intellectual discussion on the topic or do you want to rant like you are on Twitter, Reddit, or some cable media show? Feel free to head over to one of those if that is your intentions. The primary reason why Trump was elected was because he was the only candidate brave enough to attack both the Bush and Clinton dynastic era policies (on live Television, btw). IIRC, he did replace NAFTA. A lot of Americans actually are interested in the idea of a strong focus on American job availability. Regardless of a subjective judgement on whether Trump mad e progress on this or not, those were the policies he publicly promoted. He also has done other public things like Twitter rants against companies that are moving factories to Mexico, etc. So, his base is entirely aware of all of these things and that is exactly what GP commenter was referring too. And that is exactly what you failed to negate with all of your flamebaiting ranting.