7 ms·

I'm generally surprised no one brings up the negative health benefits of processed foods. It is not healthier to get rid of meat only to replace it with high s

by ipaddr 6y ago

I'm generally surprised no one brings up the negative health benefits of processed foods. It is not healthier to get rid of meat only to replace it with high salt chemically processed food that tastes like meat. It seems like we are going backwards. You know what uses less greenhouse emissions, less water and less land? The orginal plant based food that gets processed into a beyond burger. If you really care about the planet why are you buying processed anything? That get's shipped nationwide / worldwide that creates factories, chemical waste, greenhouse gases. Buying locally and growing locally really helps the planet. Going to burger king and getting an absolute burger instead of a whooper is just pretending.

tootie 6y ago
All food is processed. Cows are genetically engineered. There's no reason to be afraid of simple chemistry. Cranks like Michael Polian have made a fortune selling FUD with no science. Just read a label. Boxed food with a ton of salt and sugar is probably not good for you whether it's corn syrup or agave nectar. Similarly, boxed fiber and protein is perfectly fine. Buying locally is not scalable and fails to take advantage of the climate advantage of different geographies.
- SvenMarquardt 6y ago
  Real meat is lindy. Fake meat is not. We won't know until multi-decade studies have been done on the health effects of a fake meat diet.
  - toper-centage 6y ago
    Fortunately, we at least know that meat consumption, specially red meat, is bad for you and a WFPB diet is better. So my suggestion is to use products like beyong as a gateway to a WFPB diet.
    - lambdaba 6y ago
      Meat, literally millions of years in our evolutionary past VS seed oils barely 100 (more like 50 for mass adoption), but surely "the science" is never wrong nor corrupted. Inform yourself on the history of this with Ancel Keys etc.
      - ajdegol 6y ago
        Modern humans don't go back literally millions of years. If one were to look at how humans evolved then looking at "Comparative Anatomy of Digestive System of Carnivores, Omnivores, Herbivores, and Humans" to me implies a strong bent towards fruits and nuts. Personally, I think whatever could be eaten got eaten. The consensus of the IPCC is that we should eat less meat. Food has extremely strong cultural significance and a lot of people tie up their identity with it. I can understand that. If they feel that their diet is under attack they see it as life and death for their identity. I imagine you've picked a side and will seek whatever information or studies suits you; everyone is doing that these days. It's anti-scientific.
        lambdaba 6y ago
        I arrived at this conclusion both from personal experience (I've tried all the apparently reasonable diets) and the scientific data. Nuts are barely digestible. Our digestive system doesn't look like a herbivore / fruit eater at all. Surely we've had some, but that's not what we're build for. I think we're like dogs, we can survive on a diversity of foods (and get sick from some of them) but we thrive on meat. That's my n=1 intimate conviction, not one I sought to arrive at, but once I had experience it there's absolutely no doubt in my mind. Naturally I sought the people that had the same experience and they do have the data and the explanations for why, but it's too lengthy to provide here, although I can give hints if you wish. Oh and australopithecus ate meat, this goes far beyond modern humans. This is why we got smart, because intelligence pays off far more for hunting than for foraging, particularly for an otherwise frail creature.
        ajdegol 6y ago
        Sure hints would be good and much appreciated! When you say "our diet doesn't look like a herbivore/fruit eater at all", I see tables like this [1] and it would strongly suggest the opposite. Maybe it's propaganda... I don't know, I should like to see something like a ScienceBrief on it. In terms of the last thing you said. You phrased it as "australopithecus ate meat"; it seems they predominantly were herbivorous according to wikipedia[2]. Which doesn't preclude eating meat, but could easily be misinterpreted from the way you put it. [1] https://livinontheveg.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/comparative-anatomy.jpg https://livinontheveg.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/compara... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus#Diet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus#Diet
    - lambdaba 6y ago
      Just one quick find: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/records-found-in-dusty-basement-undermine-decades-of-dietary-advice/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/records-found-in-... > In 2013, Ramsden resurrected another long-lost randomized study, the 1960s-era Sydney Diet Heart Study. Reanalyzing its unpublished data—also stored on old nine-track computer tapes—he found that volunteers who replaced much of the saturated fat in their diet with polyunsaturated fats high in linoleic acid had a higher risk of death from coronary heart disease
  - tootie 6y ago
    "Fake meat" is an epithet. It's a meat substitute made of real food. None of the ingredients are remotely dangerous. People have been eating tofu and seitan for centuries. We know very what the effects of vegetarianism and veganism are. Some nutrients like iron and B12 need to be looked after but otherwise you can have robust good health.
- acituan 6y ago
  > There's no reason to be afraid of simple chemistry Food chemistry is one of the most complicated chemistries ever. Not only we can't simply construct an argument of safety from first principles but also nutrition labels hardly makes an exhaustive list of the contents and processes involved. Not even mentioning the labeling regulation quirks. > All food is processed. This is reduction to absurdity. Even if genetically engineered, the process of cell divisions that end up being a living cow is so complicated that it would lend itself more readily to a claim of integrity, one much stronger than a decade old factory assembly process of dead nutrients. We've co-evolved with the former process for millions of years and created the latter in the last several decades in the name of profit maximization.
- himinlomax 6y ago
  > Cows are genetically engineered That's not what processed food means. A slice of steak from a GMO cow is not processed food, except inasmuch as slashing a knife is a process. Furthermore, more or less traditional cheese is not considered "processed food" in that context even though it is definitely processed for a long time and with significant effort. Nor is wine or sauerkraut for that matter.
  - tootie 6y ago
    Yeah "not considered" processed because it's what people are used to, not because it's safe or natural. Livestock have been genetically engineered via selective breeding for millenia before we knew what DNA was. Unless we have reason to believe that mixing pea protein and heme in sterile vat is actually more dangerous than fermentation, it's FUD. Grilling meat can release carcinogens (https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/cooked-meats-fact-sheet https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/d...).
crymptonopeicon 6y ago
>If you really care about the planet why are you buying processed anything? If I'm really going to be dead within 100 years, why am I doing anything? Lots of reasons, but the easiest is because it's more enjoyable than the alternative. Who cares if a plant burger is heavily-processed? I like it and I don't have to think about whatever died to bring me my meal. Yes, it would be better if I grew my own lentils and only ate homemade dal. But that's not realistic for most people, and from a health and environmental perspective, it seems like it's hard to do worse than red meat.
- ipaddr 6y ago
  You won't be around but your burger will be. If you are going to not care about any life in 100 years why should you concern yourself with thoughts of death now?
lambdaba 6y ago
Seed oils are toxic. These fake "meats" are the some of the worst processed foods around. It's sad people are being duped once again by the food industry and medical establishment. This will only further worsen the awful health of the population.
- toper-centage 6y ago
  I never understood beyond for a health product though. Is that really their branding?
  - lambdaba 6y ago
    That's people's perception: meat is unhealthy, but now there's this vegetable-based "meat" that's better, tastes just as good and as a bonus it's saving the planet etc.
- toper-centage 6y ago
  Also, do you have more on thst "seed oils are toxic"? Literally never heard about that.
  - lambdaba 6y ago
    See this for the example https://youtu.be/ZdhywL6icZU https://youtu.be/ZdhywL6icZU There is a ton of info, just look around. Also, what is the common ingredient in all processed foods? This is what is making people fat. Omega-6 integrates in body fat, easily oxidized and unstable, rendering our own fat inaccessible for energy, so we're chronically hungry, tired, and inflamed. Than add in sugar and salt for hyperpalability. We've been hacked. Seed oils are nothing more than industrial waste sold as food for profits.
    - open0 6y ago
      Chia and flax seeds are some of the best sources of Omega-3s...
Matumio 6y ago
You seem to throw all food processing into the same pot, so to speak. Humans have an under-developed digestion system. Why? Because they can pre-process their foods to compensate. They know that some plants are poisonous unless cooked, for example. And obviously, few food-processing factories or bulk shipping methods of ingredients cause enough greenhouse gasses that you can just eat local meat instead, if you care about your footprint. Saying that none of this is solving a real problem is wishful thinking.
Pfhreak 6y ago
Health is not the reason these products exist. I buy them because I want an unhealthy treat that doesn't have the same ecological or animal rights impacts as beef. If 10% of whopper sales switch to impossible whoppers, that's a big deal, and foods like this can provide a bridge to consumers who have never considered vegetarianism. I do buy or grow local food, I'm a vegetarian myself. Your view is, in my opinion, too black and white. There's serious momentum around plant based meals, and that's making even more plant based foods available elsewhere.
kilroy123 6y ago
Couldn't agree more. It's highly proceeded fake food. I think you could do better by simply eating more veggies and cutting red meat consumption.
- elevenoh 6y ago
  yep
jlnthws 6y ago
Thanks, this is the most underrated answer. Selling processed food as one solution to climate change is genius marketing BS but still just BS. It reminds me of Soylent, Juicero and the like. If you care about the environment, your health and animal well being then just eat less animal product (you need some anyway), buy only local food (local meat) and above all stop wasting so much of it. Just a few decades ago people knew what they were eating, no processed food in any way. They were raising their livestock in their yard, they knew their single sheep / pork / cow and poultry and respected them. At some point you need to eat and kill them, people getting shocked by this have just become brainwashed or oversensitive. Go spend some time in Africa, Asia or Eastern Europe, they're laughing at this nonsense trend.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
goodoldneon 6y ago
About once a month I have a huge craving for a burger, so I’ll eat a Beyond burger. It’s worse than eating veggies but it helps keep me vegetarian. Without it, I’d probably eat a real burger to satiate my meat craving. Since I’m an all-or-nothing person (major personality flaw), eating meat once a month would turn into a slippery slope. Beyond meat helps to keep me on the vegetarian straight and narrow
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
fmajid 6y ago
I did try it. It was revolting. Never again. Vat-grown meat may have a future, but fake meat does not.
majani 6y ago
I don't think anyone's buying a burger for the health benefits though
Traster 6y ago
I think this is a counterproductive view. Gas turbines are bad for greenhouse gas emissions, but the fact is that gas turbines have displaced coal generators in many places in the US reducing net emissions. Are gas turbines a part of a zero emissions electricity grid? No of course not. But are they an improvment on what's happening today? In some cases yes. Ultimately you're right, eating locally grown plant based diets would be better for an individual, but you're also wrong because the beyond burger is a hell of a lot better than the food it's replacing in most cases.

by ipaddr 6y ago

tootie 6y ago

All food is processed. Cows are genetically engineered. There's no reason to be afraid of simple chemistry. Cranks like Michael Polian have made a fortune selling FUD with no science. Just read a label. Boxed food with a ton of salt and sugar is probably not good for you whether it's corn syrup or agave nectar. Similarly, boxed fiber and protein is perfectly fine. Buying locally is not scalable and fails to take advantage of the climate advantage of different geographies.

SvenMarquardt 6y ago
Real meat is lindy. Fake meat is not. We won't know until multi-decade studies have been done on the health effects of a fake meat diet.
- toper-centage 6y ago
  Fortunately, we at least know that meat consumption, specially red meat, is bad for you and a WFPB diet is better. So my suggestion is to use products like beyong as a gateway to a WFPB diet.
  - lambdaba 6y ago
    Meat, literally millions of years in our evolutionary past VS seed oils barely 100 (more like 50 for mass adoption), but surely "the science" is never wrong nor corrupted. Inform yourself on the history of this with Ancel Keys etc.
    - ajdegol 6y ago
      Modern humans don't go back literally millions of years. If one were to look at how humans evolved then looking at "Comparative Anatomy of Digestive System of Carnivores, Omnivores, Herbivores, and Humans" to me implies a strong bent towards fruits and nuts. Personally, I think whatever could be eaten got eaten. The consensus of the IPCC is that we should eat less meat. Food has extremely strong cultural significance and a lot of people tie up their identity with it. I can understand that. If they feel that their diet is under attack they see it as life and death for their identity. I imagine you've picked a side and will seek whatever information or studies suits you; everyone is doing that these days. It's anti-scientific.
      - lambdaba 6y ago
        I arrived at this conclusion both from personal experience (I've tried all the apparently reasonable diets) and the scientific data. Nuts are barely digestible. Our digestive system doesn't look like a herbivore / fruit eater at all. Surely we've had some, but that's not what we're build for. I think we're like dogs, we can survive on a diversity of foods (and get sick from some of them) but we thrive on meat. That's my n=1 intimate conviction, not one I sought to arrive at, but once I had experience it there's absolutely no doubt in my mind. Naturally I sought the people that had the same experience and they do have the data and the explanations for why, but it's too lengthy to provide here, although I can give hints if you wish. Oh and australopithecus ate meat, this goes far beyond modern humans. This is why we got smart, because intelligence pays off far more for hunting than for foraging, particularly for an otherwise frail creature.
        ajdegol 6y ago
        Sure hints would be good and much appreciated! When you say "our diet doesn't look like a herbivore/fruit eater at all", I see tables like this [1] and it would strongly suggest the opposite. Maybe it's propaganda... I don't know, I should like to see something like a ScienceBrief on it. In terms of the last thing you said. You phrased it as "australopithecus ate meat"; it seems they predominantly were herbivorous according to wikipedia[2]. Which doesn't preclude eating meat, but could easily be misinterpreted from the way you put it. [1] https://livinontheveg.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/comparative-anatomy.jpg https://livinontheveg.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/compara... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus#Diet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus#Diet
  - lambdaba 6y ago
    Just one quick find: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/records-found-in-dusty-basement-undermine-decades-of-dietary-advice/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/records-found-in-... > In 2013, Ramsden resurrected another long-lost randomized study, the 1960s-era Sydney Diet Heart Study. Reanalyzing its unpublished data—also stored on old nine-track computer tapes—he found that volunteers who replaced much of the saturated fat in their diet with polyunsaturated fats high in linoleic acid had a higher risk of death from coronary heart disease
- tootie 6y ago
  "Fake meat" is an epithet. It's a meat substitute made of real food. None of the ingredients are remotely dangerous. People have been eating tofu and seitan for centuries. We know very what the effects of vegetarianism and veganism are. Some nutrients like iron and B12 need to be looked after but otherwise you can have robust good health.
acituan 6y ago
> There's no reason to be afraid of simple chemistry Food chemistry is one of the most complicated chemistries ever. Not only we can't simply construct an argument of safety from first principles but also nutrition labels hardly makes an exhaustive list of the contents and processes involved. Not even mentioning the labeling regulation quirks. > All food is processed. This is reduction to absurdity. Even if genetically engineered, the process of cell divisions that end up being a living cow is so complicated that it would lend itself more readily to a claim of integrity, one much stronger than a decade old factory assembly process of dead nutrients. We've co-evolved with the former process for millions of years and created the latter in the last several decades in the name of profit maximization.
himinlomax 6y ago
> Cows are genetically engineered That's not what processed food means. A slice of steak from a GMO cow is not processed food, except inasmuch as slashing a knife is a process. Furthermore, more or less traditional cheese is not considered "processed food" in that context even though it is definitely processed for a long time and with significant effort. Nor is wine or sauerkraut for that matter.
- tootie 6y ago
  Yeah "not considered" processed because it's what people are used to, not because it's safe or natural. Livestock have been genetically engineered via selective breeding for millenia before we knew what DNA was. Unless we have reason to believe that mixing pea protein and heme in sterile vat is actually more dangerous than fermentation, it's FUD. Grilling meat can release carcinogens (https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/cooked-meats-fact-sheet https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/d...).

crymptonopeicon 6y ago

>If you really care about the planet why are you buying processed anything? If I'm really going to be dead within 100 years, why am I doing anything? Lots of reasons, but the easiest is because it's more enjoyable than the alternative. Who cares if a plant burger is heavily-processed? I like it and I don't have to think about whatever died to bring me my meal. Yes, it would be better if I grew my own lentils and only ate homemade dal. But that's not realistic for most people, and from a health and environmental perspective, it seems like it's hard to do worse than red meat.

ipaddr 6y ago
You won't be around but your burger will be. If you are going to not care about any life in 100 years why should you concern yourself with thoughts of death now?

lambdaba 6y ago

Seed oils are toxic. These fake "meats" are the some of the worst processed foods around. It's sad people are being duped once again by the food industry and medical establishment. This will only further worsen the awful health of the population.

toper-centage 6y ago
I never understood beyond for a health product though. Is that really their branding?
- lambdaba 6y ago
  That's people's perception: meat is unhealthy, but now there's this vegetable-based "meat" that's better, tastes just as good and as a bonus it's saving the planet etc.
toper-centage 6y ago
Also, do you have more on thst "seed oils are toxic"? Literally never heard about that.
- lambdaba 6y ago
  See this for the example https://youtu.be/ZdhywL6icZU https://youtu.be/ZdhywL6icZU There is a ton of info, just look around. Also, what is the common ingredient in all processed foods? This is what is making people fat. Omega-6 integrates in body fat, easily oxidized and unstable, rendering our own fat inaccessible for energy, so we're chronically hungry, tired, and inflamed. Than add in sugar and salt for hyperpalability. We've been hacked. Seed oils are nothing more than industrial waste sold as food for profits.
  - open0 6y ago
    Chia and flax seeds are some of the best sources of Omega-3s...

Matumio 6y ago

You seem to throw all food processing into the same pot, so to speak. Humans have an under-developed digestion system. Why? Because they can pre-process their foods to compensate. They know that some plants are poisonous unless cooked, for example. And obviously, few food-processing factories or bulk shipping methods of ingredients cause enough greenhouse gasses that you can just eat local meat instead, if you care about your footprint. Saying that none of this is solving a real problem is wishful thinking.

Pfhreak 6y ago

Health is not the reason these products exist. I buy them because I want an unhealthy treat that doesn't have the same ecological or animal rights impacts as beef. If 10% of whopper sales switch to impossible whoppers, that's a big deal, and foods like this can provide a bridge to consumers who have never considered vegetarianism. I do buy or grow local food, I'm a vegetarian myself. Your view is, in my opinion, too black and white. There's serious momentum around plant based meals, and that's making even more plant based foods available elsewhere.

kilroy123 6y ago

Couldn't agree more. It's highly proceeded fake food. I think you could do better by simply eating more veggies and cutting red meat consumption.

elevenoh 6y ago
yep

jlnthws 6y ago

Thanks, this is the most underrated answer. Selling processed food as one solution to climate change is genius marketing BS but still just BS. It reminds me of Soylent, Juicero and the like. If you care about the environment, your health and animal well being then just eat less animal product (you need some anyway), buy only local food (local meat) and above all stop wasting so much of it. Just a few decades ago people knew what they were eating, no processed food in any way. They were raising their livestock in their yard, they knew their single sheep / pork / cow and poultry and respected them. At some point you need to eat and kill them, people getting shocked by this have just become brainwashed or oversensitive. Go spend some time in Africa, Asia or Eastern Europe, they're laughing at this nonsense trend.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

goodoldneon 6y ago

About once a month I have a huge craving for a burger, so I’ll eat a Beyond burger. It’s worse than eating veggies but it helps keep me vegetarian. Without it, I’d probably eat a real burger to satiate my meat craving. Since I’m an all-or-nothing person (major personality flaw), eating meat once a month would turn into a slippery slope. Beyond meat helps to keep me on the vegetarian straight and narrow

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

fmajid 6y ago

I did try it. It was revolting. Never again. Vat-grown meat may have a future, but fake meat does not.

majani 6y ago

I don't think anyone's buying a burger for the health benefits though

Traster 6y ago

I think this is a counterproductive view. Gas turbines are bad for greenhouse gas emissions, but the fact is that gas turbines have displaced coal generators in many places in the US reducing net emissions. Are gas turbines a part of a zero emissions electricity grid? No of course not. But are they an improvment on what's happening today? In some cases yes. Ultimately you're right, eating locally grown plant based diets would be better for an individual, but you're also wrong because the beyond burger is a hell of a lot better than the food it's replacing in most cases.