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>It's also worth keeping in mind that living off plants generally kills more total animals (although smaller animals) than living off medium-large animals. You
by dqv 5y ago
>It's also worth keeping in mind that living off plants generally kills more total animals (although smaller animals) than living off medium-large animals.
Your net consumption of plants is reduced when you reduce your consumption of animals, friend. How do you figure it would cause the death of more total animals?
>While I assign pretty significant utilitarian value to "stop eating animals", it still falls a few orders of magnitude short of "provide for the health and wellbeing of humans".
People get along just fine eating only legumes and grains and a few other plants sprinkled in.
- wyager 5y ago> How do you figure it would cause the death of more total animals Cattle grazing causes less animal death than industrial plant agriculture (land clearing, pest control, insecticide usage, etc.). > People get along just fine eating only legumes and grain No they don't. Healthy vegans are few and far between. Not that the SAD is much (or any) better.
- dqv 5y ago>Cattle grazing causes less animal death than industrial plant agriculture (land clearing, pest control, insecticide usage, etc.). Even grass fed beef are fed fodder which is the result of industrial plant agriculture. >No they don't. Healthy vegans are few and far between. Yes they do. Healthy vegans are way more common than you think. There is nothing unique about meat that can't be obtained from plant-based foods.
- wyager 5y ago> Even grass fed beef are fed fodder which is the result of industrial plant agriculture. Cattle are fed the byproducts of human agriculture that humans refuse to eat. Anything else cattle are fed (scrubland plants, grass, etc.) is extremely low-impact. > Healthy vegans are way more common than you think. The vast majority of vegans I know are clearly malnourished. Only the ones who exhibit fairly herculean effort manage to maintain a good physique. OTOH, the vast majority of people I know who maintain an extremely animal-heavy (or animal-exclusive) diet show visible indicators of extremely good health (good skin condition, high muscle mass, good bone development, good teeth, etc.) > There is nothing unique about meat that can't be obtained from plant-based foods. Nutrition science is not at a state where we can make this statement conclusively, but what we do know conclusively is that it's at least extremely difficult to get a complete nutritional profile from plants, whereas it's very easy to do so from animal products.
- dqv 5y ago>Cattle are fed the byproducts of human agriculture that humans refuse to eat. Anything else cattle are fed (scrubland plants, grass, etc.) is extremely low-impact. And there is no reason those byproducts can't be repurposed for other uses. You say this like they only eat byproducts, yet 70% of the soy production in the US goes to feeding cattle. >The vast majority of vegans I know are clearly malnourished. How many vegans do you know exactly? >visible indicators of extremely good health Visible indicators are a dubious way of measuring health. I also get the sense that you are comparing vegans who aren't interested in personal health to omnivores/carnivores who are. In other words, the vast majority of vegans who aren't interested in their health are ... unhealthy. The vast majority of people I know who eat animal products have high blood pressure and are at least pre-diabetic among other things. >whereas it's very easy to do so from animal products. We wouldn't be supplementing dairy with vitamins if this were actually the case. If you're talking about complete proteins then soy, buckwheat, hemp, chia seed, and spirulina fit the bill. If grown locally, quinoa. Already common combinations that make complete proteins are beans and rice, barley and lentils. This isn't anymore difficult than cooking a steak. If you're talking about vitamins, then I hate to break it to you but you have to supplement even on an animal-based diet.
- matchbok 5y agoSimply false. Cats, for example, will die without animal protein.
- dqv 5y agoWe're not cats. We don't have the same digestive systems as cats. We are not obligate carnivores.
- efiecho 5y ago> Yes they do. Healthy vegans are way more common than you think. There is nothing unique about meat that can't be obtained from plant-based foods. You can easily check if a vegan is actually following a vegan diet without cheating, because after a few years they will develop the sunken eyes and hollow collarbones, definitely not looking healthy.
- sweetheart 5y agoWait then why do literally none of the staunch vegan people I know look like this? And why does the American Dietetic Association officially state that a vegan diet is completely fine for all stages of life?
- efiecho 5y ago> Wait then why do literally none of the staunch vegan people I know look like this? Maybe your are lying or in denial? I have first hand experience with the cult like properties of the vegan movement. It's very clear from how ex-vegans - people how really tried to embrace veganism, but had to quit because of health issues - are harassed by current vegans, any criticism of the movement cannot be tolerated and ex-vegans are very dangerous as they expose that veganism is not for everyone. > And why does the American Dietetic Association officially state that a vegan diet is completely fine for all stages of life? Lobbyism? Research some of the former controversies. The name is Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics now by the way.
- sweetheart 5y agoDo you have any proof that lobbyism is the cause? Or are you just saying that? Also would you be interested in having a zoom call with me, or some other vegans, to see that we don’t at all look unhealthy? We can clear this up very quickly, I think.
- dqv 5y agoYou've already decided that any healthy vegan must be cheating - there is no way to have a productive conversation with you about this.