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Something that keeps me up at night is my fear that I only studied computer science and became a programmer because of economic and status reasons. I do feel in

Something that keeps me up at night is my fear that I only studied computer science and became a programmer because of economic and status reasons. I do feel incredibly lucky to have the job and freedom I do, but it drains me. And now I feel it's such a specialized education and I didn't explore enough to know anything else, and so I have no idea if I would have liked something completely different.

pugio 5y ago
Since this feels like it's responding to the common wisdom /advice to "follow your passions" (and the fear that comes from missing out on this), I recommend reading Cal Newport's "So Good They Can't Ignore You" for an alternative mindset which may provide an antidote to that class of worry. (Also, consider that the freedom you gained from what is a pretty good career choice might afford you the free time to discover other things which bring you joy.)
planet-and-halo 5y ago
You may not be in school any more, but you can still study whatever you want. I went the other direction: studied humanities in school, taught myself programming once I was working as a professional because I found it intriguing, and now I do this for a living. You have a whole lifetime. If you want to learn something, you can do it. Even Einstein got started in his spare time.
- spekcular 5y ago
  Hold on a second. While I totally support self-directed learning, "Even Einstein got started in his spare time" seems to suggest that he learned physics recreationally. My apologies if you did not intend this, but just to clarify, this is definitely not the case. He earned a PhD from the University of Zurich, which is about the most traditional path in theoretical physics education possible!
  - edgyquant 5y ago
    To be fair it does say, “got started,” which is correct. He got started learning math via self learning.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
  For instance, I started re learning guitar and sax after almost a decade of playing neither. And unlike being a loser kid in band, as an adult, I fully recognize they're cool skills many people actually appreciate which makes it extra rewarding to practice in my free time.
- edgyquant 5y ago
  I went the opposite, initially wanted humanities (history) but went into CS/Math for money. I ended up quitting after two years and just taking an associates (started at a community college,) but I wish I’d have stuck with humanities. I already knew programming from doing web design as a kid and trying to start a dozen companies so I didn’t learn much and I passed all my classes with flying colors despite hardly ever showing up and never paying attention. Not because I’m a genius but because I already knew CS 1&2 + data structures and I did Kham Academy up to Calc 2 as I was just interested in it personally (this I think aids your point that you don’t need school) but the one history class I took really had me. It’s the only place where I could talk about all the history I read and listen to where people knew some stuff to debate. Only time get to discuss history outside of Reddit these days is with “WW2 history buffs” which is like the Saturday morning cartoons of history.
  - biinui 5y ago
    If you don't mind, what are you doing for a living now?
    - edgyquant 5y ago
      I’m a full stack engineer at a YC funded start up
- analognoise 5y ago
  Einstein was 12 when he started learning calculus; the myth that he was bad at math as a child is just that (a myth). Einstein didn't "get started in his spare time" - thoughts about the universe consumed him as a person, to the point where him being "absent minded" was because he was visualizing the universe; his love letters even contained frequent discussions of science. His brain was preserved after his death, and there's been actual work done by multiple groups, with indications he was structurally different than a normal brain. Einstein did NOT just get started "in his spare time". At all.
  - planet-and-halo 5y ago
    Sorry, I didn't mean to say anything suggestive of that old myth that he was bad at math. My point was exactly what you were saying: he was thinking about and studying these things under his own direction at first.
vmarsy 5y ago
MOOCs are really great for appeasing your FOMO in that area and giving you a more well-rounded education! You can basically take 101 intro course of any field from great universities. And if you want to go deeper, the advances courses on a university's page usually have syllabus, with recommended readings etc.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
taotau 5y ago
I've been a developer since the 90s and I still occasionally experience that dread. But then I remember the reason I love this profession - it allows us to gain deep insights into other fields that we wouldnt normally come into contact with. To build abstract models of real world systems, you have to understand them and understanding is the best form of learning. We naturally become experts in many diverse fields simply by modelling them. Recently I was made redundant from a long term job and was very hesitant about applying for the cool hip roles that I knew were around, instead I timidly replied to a few linkedin recruiter emails. I was promptly offered jobs working for one of the big banks, online ordering for one of the supermarket chains, and a local government role. After due consideration, I turned them down and started applying to projects in areas where my skills are needed but I have something to learn as well. Im not interested in retail banking or building another checkout widget for a generic online shopper. I know way more about the inner workings of anaesthesiology, police procedures, virology, locksmithing, fintech, electoral processes, hotel chains, cruise lines and many other fields that I would never have given two thoughts about. Software is a craft, and to deliver your products you have to be invited into the customers private space. I find that fascinating and very fulfilling.
heisenbit 5y ago
As a person in software you should know you signed up for a lifetime of learning.
the_only_law 5y ago
I’m in the process of trying going back right now (for a non-CS STEM field). It’s going to be contrived and expensive as the education system really doesn’t seem to care for non traditional students (and much to my dismay is not as hackable as I had hoped). Yes, I will come out in debt, yes I could make more money doing what I do now in the time it would take now, but I don’t particularly care.
- wheelinsupial 5y ago
  What’s not hackable? From the schools I’m familiar with, there is a minimum number of credits you need to fulfill at that uni. That’s unavoidable. Sometimes you can test out of courses; other times you can skip pre-reqs by getting the instructor’s permission to enroll. I’ve finished my last 60 credits (well 4 credits remain this summer term) of a statistics degree at a Canadian uni by attending midterms and finals. I only attended 4 credits worth of classes because 1/3rd of the grade in one 3 credit class was due to in class participation. The 1 credit class was 2/3rds in class participation. The rest, I didn’t go to a single lecture. I did that part-time while working full-time. Obviously there are some (many) disadvantages, but I took courses with profs that stuck close to a textbook for the course and I took courses without lab components. 1 course is a humanities course this summer and the remaining courses were stats, math, or comp sci. I’m not a hacker, so maybe it’s not hackable in the sense you mean.
  - the_only_law 5y ago
    I guess the “hackable” part is more or less according to my self imposed constraints along with the unbreakable bureaucracy of the admissions/aid process. Note many of these would not be an issue if I were interested in completing an undergrad degree in decade or so, but I would like to Most of my initial research was into online programs. I was very surprised by the limited number of good programs offered by “legitimate” schools. These often charged prices that were simply too much even if I continued working full time. Part of this was many still charged out of state tuition rates for online programs (note I cannot even get in state tuition in my state of legal residence right now). Any sort of decent aid was out of the question for reasons that could their own thread. complete undergrad while I’m still in my 20s at least. However I found a few programs that seemed to have a good quality and were affordable. The problem of course, could I be admitted. As someone who was not school minded when they were younger, I’m definitely not the type of material colleges would usually be interested in admitting. 2 year transfer programs are normally the answer for people like me, but at the time I was not aware of any online AA programs, and while community colleges do offer some evening courses, it could have easily increased the time-cost significantly as I can obviously only take one or two of those a semester and not all classes are offering in that time slot either. Instead, I gambled to see if I could “hack” undergrad admissions by utilizing my time in the industry as replacements for some other criteria. This did not pan out. In fact, of the programs I applied for, only one asked for a copy of my resume, while every one of them was extremely interested in my high school disciplinary record. Most recently, I did some research and it seemed like I found some AA programs that are fully online in my state. They would guarantee me admission into a 4 year university, which I decided I would be ok to quit working to finish. Then a few days ago I got the acceptance into one of those AA programs only to get suspicious when I looked for certain courses which were certainly not online. As it comes, it seems a number of schools are very vague in whether the AA can be complete “fully online” some including hybrid courses in that definition. I’m not defeated yet as there are other schools which may offer truly online, asynchronous programs. This is important as I cannot get the loans at the moment to quit working and go back full time (in a few years that will likely change, which is why I was fine dropping work to finish the last two years) TLDR: I’ve been hunting for ways to complete the degree I’m interested in non traditionally (a hack), but every time I’ve found one, it turns out to be too good to be true.

pugio 5y ago

Since this feels like it's responding to the common wisdom /advice to "follow your passions" (and the fear that comes from missing out on this), I recommend reading Cal Newport's "So Good They Can't Ignore You" for an alternative mindset which may provide an antidote to that class of worry. (Also, consider that the freedom you gained from what is a pretty good career choice might afford you the free time to discover other things which bring you joy.)

planet-and-halo 5y ago

You may not be in school any more, but you can still study whatever you want. I went the other direction: studied humanities in school, taught myself programming once I was working as a professional because I found it intriguing, and now I do this for a living. You have a whole lifetime. If you want to learn something, you can do it. Even Einstein got started in his spare time.

spekcular 5y ago
Hold on a second. While I totally support self-directed learning, "Even Einstein got started in his spare time" seems to suggest that he learned physics recreationally. My apologies if you did not intend this, but just to clarify, this is definitely not the case. He earned a PhD from the University of Zurich, which is about the most traditional path in theoretical physics education possible!
- edgyquant 5y ago
  To be fair it does say, “got started,” which is correct. He got started learning math via self learning.
MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
For instance, I started re learning guitar and sax after almost a decade of playing neither. And unlike being a loser kid in band, as an adult, I fully recognize they're cool skills many people actually appreciate which makes it extra rewarding to practice in my free time.
edgyquant 5y ago
I went the opposite, initially wanted humanities (history) but went into CS/Math for money. I ended up quitting after two years and just taking an associates (started at a community college,) but I wish I’d have stuck with humanities. I already knew programming from doing web design as a kid and trying to start a dozen companies so I didn’t learn much and I passed all my classes with flying colors despite hardly ever showing up and never paying attention. Not because I’m a genius but because I already knew CS 1&2 + data structures and I did Kham Academy up to Calc 2 as I was just interested in it personally (this I think aids your point that you don’t need school) but the one history class I took really had me. It’s the only place where I could talk about all the history I read and listen to where people knew some stuff to debate. Only time get to discuss history outside of Reddit these days is with “WW2 history buffs” which is like the Saturday morning cartoons of history.
- biinui 5y ago
  If you don't mind, what are you doing for a living now?
  - edgyquant 5y ago
    I’m a full stack engineer at a YC funded start up
analognoise 5y ago
Einstein was 12 when he started learning calculus; the myth that he was bad at math as a child is just that (a myth). Einstein didn't "get started in his spare time" - thoughts about the universe consumed him as a person, to the point where him being "absent minded" was because he was visualizing the universe; his love letters even contained frequent discussions of science. His brain was preserved after his death, and there's been actual work done by multiple groups, with indications he was structurally different than a normal brain. Einstein did NOT just get started "in his spare time". At all.
- planet-and-halo 5y ago
  Sorry, I didn't mean to say anything suggestive of that old myth that he was bad at math. My point was exactly what you were saying: he was thinking about and studying these things under his own direction at first.

vmarsy 5y ago

MOOCs are really great for appeasing your FOMO in that area and giving you a more well-rounded education! You can basically take 101 intro course of any field from great universities. And if you want to go deeper, the advances courses on a university's page usually have syllabus, with recommended readings etc.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

taotau 5y ago

I've been a developer since the 90s and I still occasionally experience that dread. But then I remember the reason I love this profession - it allows us to gain deep insights into other fields that we wouldnt normally come into contact with. To build abstract models of real world systems, you have to understand them and understanding is the best form of learning. We naturally become experts in many diverse fields simply by modelling them. Recently I was made redundant from a long term job and was very hesitant about applying for the cool hip roles that I knew were around, instead I timidly replied to a few linkedin recruiter emails. I was promptly offered jobs working for one of the big banks, online ordering for one of the supermarket chains, and a local government role. After due consideration, I turned them down and started applying to projects in areas where my skills are needed but I have something to learn as well. Im not interested in retail banking or building another checkout widget for a generic online shopper. I know way more about the inner workings of anaesthesiology, police procedures, virology, locksmithing, fintech, electoral processes, hotel chains, cruise lines and many other fields that I would never have given two thoughts about. Software is a craft, and to deliver your products you have to be invited into the customers private space. I find that fascinating and very fulfilling.

heisenbit 5y ago

As a person in software you should know you signed up for a lifetime of learning.

the_only_law 5y ago

I’m in the process of trying going back right now (for a non-CS STEM field). It’s going to be contrived and expensive as the education system really doesn’t seem to care for non traditional students (and much to my dismay is not as hackable as I had hoped). Yes, I will come out in debt, yes I could make more money doing what I do now in the time it would take now, but I don’t particularly care.

wheelinsupial 5y ago
What’s not hackable? From the schools I’m familiar with, there is a minimum number of credits you need to fulfill at that uni. That’s unavoidable. Sometimes you can test out of courses; other times you can skip pre-reqs by getting the instructor’s permission to enroll. I’ve finished my last 60 credits (well 4 credits remain this summer term) of a statistics degree at a Canadian uni by attending midterms and finals. I only attended 4 credits worth of classes because 1/3rd of the grade in one 3 credit class was due to in class participation. The 1 credit class was 2/3rds in class participation. The rest, I didn’t go to a single lecture. I did that part-time while working full-time. Obviously there are some (many) disadvantages, but I took courses with profs that stuck close to a textbook for the course and I took courses without lab components. 1 course is a humanities course this summer and the remaining courses were stats, math, or comp sci. I’m not a hacker, so maybe it’s not hackable in the sense you mean.
- the_only_law 5y ago
  I guess the “hackable” part is more or less according to my self imposed constraints along with the unbreakable bureaucracy of the admissions/aid process. Note many of these would not be an issue if I were interested in completing an undergrad degree in decade or so, but I would like to Most of my initial research was into online programs. I was very surprised by the limited number of good programs offered by “legitimate” schools. These often charged prices that were simply too much even if I continued working full time. Part of this was many still charged out of state tuition rates for online programs (note I cannot even get in state tuition in my state of legal residence right now). Any sort of decent aid was out of the question for reasons that could their own thread. complete undergrad while I’m still in my 20s at least. However I found a few programs that seemed to have a good quality and were affordable. The problem of course, could I be admitted. As someone who was not school minded when they were younger, I’m definitely not the type of material colleges would usually be interested in admitting. 2 year transfer programs are normally the answer for people like me, but at the time I was not aware of any online AA programs, and while community colleges do offer some evening courses, it could have easily increased the time-cost significantly as I can obviously only take one or two of those a semester and not all classes are offering in that time slot either. Instead, I gambled to see if I could “hack” undergrad admissions by utilizing my time in the industry as replacements for some other criteria. This did not pan out. In fact, of the programs I applied for, only one asked for a copy of my resume, while every one of them was extremely interested in my high school disciplinary record. Most recently, I did some research and it seemed like I found some AA programs that are fully online in my state. They would guarantee me admission into a 4 year university, which I decided I would be ok to quit working to finish. Then a few days ago I got the acceptance into one of those AA programs only to get suspicious when I looked for certain courses which were certainly not online. As it comes, it seems a number of schools are very vague in whether the AA can be complete “fully online” some including hybrid courses in that definition. I’m not defeated yet as there are other schools which may offer truly online, asynchronous programs. This is important as I cannot get the loans at the moment to quit working and go back full time (in a few years that will likely change, which is why I was fine dropping work to finish the last two years) TLDR: I’ve been hunting for ways to complete the degree I’m interested in non traditionally (a hack), but every time I’ve found one, it turns out to be too good to be true.