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I never knew how to feel about TempleOS given Terry’s increasingly erratic behavior until his death. The guy was obviously very smart, but it’s hard to separat

I never knew how to feel about TempleOS given Terry’s increasingly erratic behavior until his death. The guy was obviously very smart, but it’s hard to separate the work from some of the things he said. (Thinking about him dropping N-words in his videos)

Pet_Ant 5y ago
...he was highly mentally disturbed. It's not like tourettes, but it still changes the context.
washadjeffmad 5y ago
Terry had obvious mental illness. It's harder for me to be prejudiced against the imperfect nature of human brains than it is to evaluate work on its own merit. As a counter example, do you feel comfortable benefitting from the work of people who you don't know haven't ever said or done anything that someone might find objectionable? If not, you're probably less morally or ethically motivated than you are susceptible to ostricism.
- Cadwhisker 5y ago
  This reminds me of the ethics behind modern British air-sea rescue techniques, where they learned to lift people from freezing water in a horizontal position instead of vertical because this had a higher rate of survival. The data behind the science came from Nazi experiments in Dachau. "Victims are ethically owed many things: recognition that what was done to them was indeed wrong, a credible indication that the society takes this seriously, an effort to identify, apprehend and punish the perpetrators, and compensation for their ongoing suffering and disadvantage. But beyond this, we have an obligation not to forget, and not to whitewash." https://www.abc.net.au/religion/is-it-ethical-to-use-data-from-nazi-medical-experiments/10098200 https://www.abc.net.au/religion/is-it-ethical-to-use-data-fr...
atatatat 5y ago
> it’s hard to separate the work from some of the things he said Consider watching a television show covering dissociative disorders.
emteycz 5y ago
He didn't even mean it in a racist way. He had nothing against black people. He thought saying it saves him from CIA monitoring, and his usage usually referred to groups of predominantly white people ("CIA n..." was his most common usage).
- thinkingemote 5y ago
  I love this explanation even if I don't believe it! The idea that a kind of forced toxicity can be a necessary protection to do good is worthy of a dystopian sci fi novel! It's similar to the forced obscurity of the Urbit project.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    Believe it as much as you'd believe a guy who thought that aliens and the CIA are working together to prevent the second coming of Jesus Christ and the God turned him into the smartest programmer in the world because he's The Chosen One to fight them by making an operating system based on God's direct instructions. It's his own words, and consistent with his behavior; he shared positivity towards black people too. He absolutely wasn't racist pre-schizofrenia - also a total atheist.
  - setr 5y ago
    >The idea that a kind of forced toxicity can be a necessary protection to do good is worthy of a dystopian sci fi novel! I don't know if it's fair to call it forced toxicity, so much as psuedo-toxicity; he's using it as red herring (or maybe a honeypot?) and following the rule: if you specifically want to be avoided by cancel culture... just get yourself cancelled :) That is, he's using the toxic word without the toxic meaning, to bypass shallow filters that lack the nuance to catch on. I'd say it's more of a kafkaesque bureaucratic distopia than a sci-fi one
- mbStavola 5y ago
  This is simply not true. You can find instances of Terry from his homeless period (sad that this is even a sentence I can write) where he uses the same slur for random black people passing by, without the CIA affiliation. There are also a lot of instances where that slur is used in the context of calling something dumb or a bad idea. I do not blame Terry, he was obviously extremely unwell. However it's pretty bold to claim that there wasn't a racial connection with his use of, uh, racial slurs.
nix23 5y ago
>Thinking about him dropping N-words in his videos Whats the problem with it? I hear that word in lots of Music Videos.
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  Can you show me these “lots” of music videos using the m word ending in “er”? For this specific case it is more nuanced, however to pretend the same word is used in pop culture is a joke.
  - nix23 5y ago
    >Can you show me these “lots” of music videos using the m word ending in “er”? https://www.lyrics.com/ https://www.lyrics.com/ and put in the n-word >For this specific case it is more nuanced, however to pretend the same word is used in pop culture is a joke. Well it is used..check link above.
    - skinnymuch 5y ago
      I’m not sure how to take you. My jump to conclusion knee jerk assumption is you are some level of racist and smug/out of touch. Did you check any of the songs? As someone who barely knows popular music, but could recognize some names, I checked those. The first page MGK/Young Jeezy, another Young Jeezy, and Snoop’s songs —- none of them use the “er” ending in the actual songs. The lyrics on other functioning sites don’t use the “er” ending. I wonder what makes you so confident, being on your side of such a sensitive topic. You seemingly did not do basic good faith research or verification. Seems more like you want your angry , “edgy” world view to be correct. You look for things to prove that. Not actual truth or facts. I normally don’t behave this outwardly aggressive, but to point to a half broken lyrics.com site that is wildly incorrect as your worldview evidence...ah I don’t know.
ludamad 5y ago
The best outcome from Terry's legacy is to show people that the hobby community will respect your work even if you are a "nuanced" person The worst outcome is someone seeing a pattern of racism being ignored that is not so "nuanced". This will cause people to open up less, viewing an endorsement and not a tolerance

Pet_Ant 5y ago

...he was highly mentally disturbed. It's not like tourettes, but it still changes the context.

washadjeffmad 5y ago

Terry had obvious mental illness. It's harder for me to be prejudiced against the imperfect nature of human brains than it is to evaluate work on its own merit. As a counter example, do you feel comfortable benefitting from the work of people who you don't know haven't ever said or done anything that someone might find objectionable? If not, you're probably less morally or ethically motivated than you are susceptible to ostricism.

Cadwhisker 5y ago
This reminds me of the ethics behind modern British air-sea rescue techniques, where they learned to lift people from freezing water in a horizontal position instead of vertical because this had a higher rate of survival. The data behind the science came from Nazi experiments in Dachau. "Victims are ethically owed many things: recognition that what was done to them was indeed wrong, a credible indication that the society takes this seriously, an effort to identify, apprehend and punish the perpetrators, and compensation for their ongoing suffering and disadvantage. But beyond this, we have an obligation not to forget, and not to whitewash." https://www.abc.net.au/religion/is-it-ethical-to-use-data-from-nazi-medical-experiments/10098200 https://www.abc.net.au/religion/is-it-ethical-to-use-data-fr...

atatatat 5y ago

> it’s hard to separate the work from some of the things he said Consider watching a television show covering dissociative disorders.

emteycz 5y ago

He didn't even mean it in a racist way. He had nothing against black people. He thought saying it saves him from CIA monitoring, and his usage usually referred to groups of predominantly white people ("CIA n..." was his most common usage).

thinkingemote 5y ago
I love this explanation even if I don't believe it! The idea that a kind of forced toxicity can be a necessary protection to do good is worthy of a dystopian sci fi novel! It's similar to the forced obscurity of the Urbit project.
- emteycz 5y ago
  Believe it as much as you'd believe a guy who thought that aliens and the CIA are working together to prevent the second coming of Jesus Christ and the God turned him into the smartest programmer in the world because he's The Chosen One to fight them by making an operating system based on God's direct instructions. It's his own words, and consistent with his behavior; he shared positivity towards black people too. He absolutely wasn't racist pre-schizofrenia - also a total atheist.
- setr 5y ago
  >The idea that a kind of forced toxicity can be a necessary protection to do good is worthy of a dystopian sci fi novel! I don't know if it's fair to call it forced toxicity, so much as psuedo-toxicity; he's using it as red herring (or maybe a honeypot?) and following the rule: if you specifically want to be avoided by cancel culture... just get yourself cancelled :) That is, he's using the toxic word without the toxic meaning, to bypass shallow filters that lack the nuance to catch on. I'd say it's more of a kafkaesque bureaucratic distopia than a sci-fi one
mbStavola 5y ago
This is simply not true. You can find instances of Terry from his homeless period (sad that this is even a sentence I can write) where he uses the same slur for random black people passing by, without the CIA affiliation. There are also a lot of instances where that slur is used in the context of calling something dumb or a bad idea. I do not blame Terry, he was obviously extremely unwell. However it's pretty bold to claim that there wasn't a racial connection with his use of, uh, racial slurs.

nix23 5y ago

>Thinking about him dropping N-words in his videos Whats the problem with it? I hear that word in lots of Music Videos.

skinnymuch 5y ago
Can you show me these “lots” of music videos using the m word ending in “er”? For this specific case it is more nuanced, however to pretend the same word is used in pop culture is a joke.
- nix23 5y ago
  >Can you show me these “lots” of music videos using the m word ending in “er”? https://www.lyrics.com/ https://www.lyrics.com/ and put in the n-word >For this specific case it is more nuanced, however to pretend the same word is used in pop culture is a joke. Well it is used..check link above.
  - skinnymuch 5y ago
    I’m not sure how to take you. My jump to conclusion knee jerk assumption is you are some level of racist and smug/out of touch. Did you check any of the songs? As someone who barely knows popular music, but could recognize some names, I checked those. The first page MGK/Young Jeezy, another Young Jeezy, and Snoop’s songs —- none of them use the “er” ending in the actual songs. The lyrics on other functioning sites don’t use the “er” ending. I wonder what makes you so confident, being on your side of such a sensitive topic. You seemingly did not do basic good faith research or verification. Seems more like you want your angry , “edgy” world view to be correct. You look for things to prove that. Not actual truth or facts. I normally don’t behave this outwardly aggressive, but to point to a half broken lyrics.com site that is wildly incorrect as your worldview evidence...ah I don’t know.

ludamad 5y ago

The best outcome from Terry's legacy is to show people that the hobby community will respect your work even if you are a "nuanced" person The worst outcome is someone seeing a pattern of racism being ignored that is not so "nuanced". This will cause people to open up less, viewing an endorsement and not a tolerance