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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2014/01/25/california-drought-past-dry-periods-have-lasted-more-than-200-years-scientists-say/amp/ https://www.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2014/01/25/california-drought-past-dry-periods-have-lasted-more-than-200-years-scientists-say/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2014/01/25/... CA climate has been much drier in the past, even before global warming. We seem to have this discussion every few years when there's a drought, but quickly forget. It seems like we do the same thing with wildfires and earthquakes.

chrisco255 6y ago
But we moved 50 million people there in the past 60 years so clearly nature must stop the mega drought cycle.
- ummonk 6y ago
  It has nothing to do with the people. The majority of the water is used for agriculture, which supplies the nation and even the world with water-hungry food.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    It's both. Yes a lot of fruits, veggies and nuts are grown in California but the nation's staple crops (corn, wheat, and soy) and livestock are grown in many other states. That is to say, we should be building desalination plants in California. Israel figured out a way to do this economically already. It's high time for CA to follow suit.
    - Cerium 6y ago
      Exactly. I don't want to feel like I'm acting amorally when I want to water my garden. If I go over my allotment of naturally provided water, then I should start paying desalination rates, but I should not feel bad because I'm not "saving enough" compared to my neighbors.
      - pixl97 6y ago
        No snowflake will take blame for the avalanche.
        beambot 6y ago
        I don't want to put words in the GP's mouth... but I believe GPs point is more akin to "one snowflake = one snowflake" (to use your analogy). In other words: California does not value water equally between use cases -- to the point where certain crops are exploiting that imbalance. E.g. almonds might be a special case since, while water intensive, there may be fewer alternative geographies. Cattle, however, are plenty-viable elsewhere & shouldn't receive such an imbalanced incentive to consume water. One natural starting point: One liter of water is priced uniformly regardless of use...
    - mdorazio 6y ago
      We already are [1]. Obviously we need more, though. I'd much rather have a sizable desalination plant for LA County than most of the boondoggle projects that get funded by propositions. [1] https://www.sdcwa.org/your-water/local-water-supplies/seawater-desalination/?q=/seawater-desalination https://www.sdcwa.org/your-water/local-water-supplies/seawat...
    - CameronNemo 6y ago
      How do you plan to power desal plants? LADWP is still importing coal fueled electricity from Utah. Not to mention all of the petroleum and natural gas plants scattered around California. Before we have desalination, we need more renewable energy.
      - njarboe 6y ago
        We could start by not shutting down our the last nuclear power plant in California in 2025 that currently provides 10% of the states electricity.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        CameronNemo 6y ago
        Sure. But even with that plant we depend on fossil fuels. So it is clearly not a complete option.
  - cronix 6y ago
    > The majority of the water is used for agriculture, which supplies the nation and even the world with water-hungry food. It kind of sounds like it has everything to do with people, unless people aren't eating that agriculture or eating whatever that agriculture eventually feeds.
  - anewaccount2021 6y ago
    People build houses in forested areas. People buy second homes in the Sierra range. Now you can't do controlled burns...you're burning someone's house down. California cannot do controlled burns. There is too much invasive development, and the State isn't going to tell NorthStar or Kirkwood to take one for the team by burning the Sierra deadwood down.
  - splitstud 6y ago
    Which does not mean that's where farming should be done, or whether si many people should crowd into a desert.
- ericbarrett 6y ago
  “Non-environmental” water use in California is 20% urban, 80% agricultural. Source: https://cwc.ca.gov/-/media/CWC-Website/Files/Documents/2019/06_June/June2019_Item_12_Attach_2_PPICFactSheets.pdf https://cwc.ca.gov/-/media/CWC-Website/Files/Documents/2019/...
yissp 6y ago
During the dry years, the people forgot about the rich years, and when the wet years returned, they lost all memory of the dry years. It was always that way. (East of Eden)
- sambroner 6y ago
  I was reading East of Eden recently and that description really wormed its way into my mind. Even if it's worse today, we knew there were ~35 year drought cycles!
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

chrisco255 6y ago

But we moved 50 million people there in the past 60 years so clearly nature must stop the mega drought cycle.

ummonk 6y ago
It has nothing to do with the people. The majority of the water is used for agriculture, which supplies the nation and even the world with water-hungry food.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  It's both. Yes a lot of fruits, veggies and nuts are grown in California but the nation's staple crops (corn, wheat, and soy) and livestock are grown in many other states. That is to say, we should be building desalination plants in California. Israel figured out a way to do this economically already. It's high time for CA to follow suit.
  - Cerium 6y ago
    Exactly. I don't want to feel like I'm acting amorally when I want to water my garden. If I go over my allotment of naturally provided water, then I should start paying desalination rates, but I should not feel bad because I'm not "saving enough" compared to my neighbors.
    - pixl97 6y ago
      No snowflake will take blame for the avalanche.
      - beambot 6y ago
        I don't want to put words in the GP's mouth... but I believe GPs point is more akin to "one snowflake = one snowflake" (to use your analogy). In other words: California does not value water equally between use cases -- to the point where certain crops are exploiting that imbalance. E.g. almonds might be a special case since, while water intensive, there may be fewer alternative geographies. Cattle, however, are plenty-viable elsewhere & shouldn't receive such an imbalanced incentive to consume water. One natural starting point: One liter of water is priced uniformly regardless of use...
  - mdorazio 6y ago
    We already are [1]. Obviously we need more, though. I'd much rather have a sizable desalination plant for LA County than most of the boondoggle projects that get funded by propositions. [1] https://www.sdcwa.org/your-water/local-water-supplies/seawater-desalination/?q=/seawater-desalination https://www.sdcwa.org/your-water/local-water-supplies/seawat...
  - CameronNemo 6y ago
    How do you plan to power desal plants? LADWP is still importing coal fueled electricity from Utah. Not to mention all of the petroleum and natural gas plants scattered around California. Before we have desalination, we need more renewable energy.
    - njarboe 6y ago
      We could start by not shutting down our the last nuclear power plant in California in 2025 that currently provides 10% of the states electricity.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - CameronNemo 6y ago
        Sure. But even with that plant we depend on fossil fuels. So it is clearly not a complete option.
- cronix 6y ago
  > The majority of the water is used for agriculture, which supplies the nation and even the world with water-hungry food. It kind of sounds like it has everything to do with people, unless people aren't eating that agriculture or eating whatever that agriculture eventually feeds.
- anewaccount2021 6y ago
  People build houses in forested areas. People buy second homes in the Sierra range. Now you can't do controlled burns...you're burning someone's house down. California cannot do controlled burns. There is too much invasive development, and the State isn't going to tell NorthStar or Kirkwood to take one for the team by burning the Sierra deadwood down.
- splitstud 6y ago
  Which does not mean that's where farming should be done, or whether si many people should crowd into a desert.
ericbarrett 6y ago
“Non-environmental” water use in California is 20% urban, 80% agricultural. Source: https://cwc.ca.gov/-/media/CWC-Website/Files/Documents/2019/06_June/June2019_Item_12_Attach_2_PPICFactSheets.pdf https://cwc.ca.gov/-/media/CWC-Website/Files/Documents/2019/...

yissp 6y ago

During the dry years, the people forgot about the rich years, and when the wet years returned, they lost all memory of the dry years. It was always that way. (East of Eden)

sambroner 6y ago
I was reading East of Eden recently and that description really wormed its way into my mind. Even if it's worse today, we knew there were ~35 year drought cycles!
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]