4 ms·

I’ve not read the book but the first thing that came to mind was how does this explain the boomers? If I am understanding the premise correctly it’s implying t

by mhoad 5y ago

I’ve not read the book but the first thing that came to mind was how does this explain the boomers? If I am understanding the premise correctly it’s implying there’s some meaningful distinction across generational lines about mental resilience? The last five years have made that abundantly clear that premise would have some real flaws in it.

arp242 5y ago
Even before that; the religious right has been posing themselves as victims for decades. Bill O'Reily started talking about "you're no longer allowed to say 'Merry Christmas'" in the earlier '00s, which aside from being nonsense, is also a good example of their supposed victimhood.
- armenarmen 5y ago
  You can totally take it the other way too. A group of people felt they were being victimized by having Christian seasonal greetings directed at them and went on a campaign to make that behavior be seen as uncouth.
  - arp242 5y ago
    Except that didn't happen.
    - armenarmen 5y ago
      Who were the people that put forward the “say happy holidays not merry Christmas” issue? Or was the issue invented (and lost) by conservative talking heads?
      - tstrimple 5y ago
        Mostly the latter. Happy Holidays isn't about excluding Christmas and Christians. It's acknowledging that there are multiple religious celebrations in similar spirit going on around the same time. I'm not sure why so many people feel like more inclusive language somehow is meant to exclude them. Some more history on the usage. https://www.history.com/news/the-war-of-words-behind-happy-holidays https://www.history.com/news/the-war-of-words-behind-happy-h...
        Rerarom 5y ago
        I live in a 90% Christian country and everyone says "Happy Holidays" and it doesn't have anything to do with religious tolerance but rather with the fact that there are multiple Christian holidays around Christmas time.
      - XorNot 5y ago
        I like how at no point it's occurred to you that maybe people are just being polite or considerate towards the beliefs of others...or that a business might not want to stipulate a specific theological belief it's employees must put forward. That just can't be it for some reason, it's got to be a conspiracy against christianity! Talk about victimhood...
        kodah 5y ago
        Depending on where you live in the US, this actually did happen. I'm one of the people who bought into that crap.
        havernator 5y ago
        White "Elder millennial" here, who grew up in red states with a Boomer dad who tried really hard not to drop the N-word in anger around me, but I still heard it a couple times. The "programming" worked on me great. I was all primed for this post-hate, post-racial society. I believed it. Legitimately. I was dedicated to judging people by the content of their character. Men, women. White, black. Whatever. IDK how it worked on everyone else but if fucking worked on me. It worked. My... I dunno, mid 20s? Were a shock as I discovered we weren't all on the same page. It's just gotten worse over time.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        ungrateful-dead 5y ago
        When a society built for Christians (or for “Christian ideals” which this country was founded upon) starts to acknowledge and accept others, the folks against these changes think everyone else is being too sensitive. When a society built with slaves and r*ping and pillaging indigenous populations starts to acknowledge that there’s issues that stemmed from that, the folks against these changes and dialogue think everyone else is being too sensitive. Is there a pattern here? There’s a lot of talk here about “victim mentality” here and how “everyone else is so sensitive, I figured it out!” It’s like the classic looking at bullet patterns on the planes that returned and not analyzing the planes that were taken down.
      - heymijo 5y ago
        Roger Ailes, the man who made Fox News, generated the controversy around this when it was a non-issue and drove it into the public spotlight. You can read the book The Loudest Voice in the Room or watch the mini-series based on it to learn more.
        armenarmen 5y ago
        Cool, will do. Thanks for an actual answer
      - kodah 5y ago
        > Who were the people that put forward the “say happy holidays not merry Christmas” issue? I was one of these people for a time. Mainly because in certain places, like where I'm from, Christmas was pushed on people. I'm an atheist and those holidays are hard enough. I've been pressured into praying with people, whom when I would try to complain would effectively mock me. I was forced to go to church where a pastor (or priest) would talk about me by proxy, speaking about how terrible I am or how I was going to hell (yaaaaay brimstone and fire). That's just a couple examples, but I'm sure you can fill in the gaps. So, I got to be kind of a dick about it. I have grown since then, and Christians have generally gotten more tolerant that not everybody pauses for their holidays. This "conversation" could've been a lot healthier though.
      - lawtalkinghuman 5y ago
        Some corporations put up a mixture of Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays signage/messaging etc. Christian persecution complex hustlers—and Fox News etc. seeking outraged eyeballs—took the existence of people saying "Happy Holidays" as an attack on them because "Jesus is the reason for the season" and then unreasonably inferred that somehow people were banned from saying "Merry Christmas". This led to some very entitled people shouting "It's 'Merry Christmas' actually!" at some underpaid cashier in Walmart because they'd been led to believing that saying Happy Holidays was a form of religious persecution and an attack on their faith. For a British example, recall the story of "Winterval", where an attempt by a city council to come up with a brand name to cover a series of events including Diwali, Christmas, New Years and so on that was used in addition to "Christmas" led to a full out culture war where the press misrepresented the whole thing as somehow replacing Christmas due to "political correctness". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winterval https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winterval
- refurb 5y ago
  I took that as more social commentary than victimhood. Victimhood would infer some real harm. O’Reilly never said that, just that the situation was ridiculous.
  - chillwaves 5y ago
    Ridiculous and completely non existent.
brigandish 5y ago
In what ways are boomers displaying victimhood? The article is quite specific and I wouldn’t recognise that group (though surely there will be individuals within that group) as displaying the kind of victimhood that suggests the high TIV mentioned.

by mhoad 5y ago

arp242 5y ago

Even before that; the religious right has been posing themselves as victims for decades. Bill O'Reily started talking about "you're no longer allowed to say 'Merry Christmas'" in the earlier '00s, which aside from being nonsense, is also a good example of their supposed victimhood.

armenarmen 5y ago
You can totally take it the other way too. A group of people felt they were being victimized by having Christian seasonal greetings directed at them and went on a campaign to make that behavior be seen as uncouth.
- arp242 5y ago
  Except that didn't happen.
  - armenarmen 5y ago
    Who were the people that put forward the “say happy holidays not merry Christmas” issue? Or was the issue invented (and lost) by conservative talking heads?
    - tstrimple 5y ago
      Mostly the latter. Happy Holidays isn't about excluding Christmas and Christians. It's acknowledging that there are multiple religious celebrations in similar spirit going on around the same time. I'm not sure why so many people feel like more inclusive language somehow is meant to exclude them. Some more history on the usage. https://www.history.com/news/the-war-of-words-behind-happy-holidays https://www.history.com/news/the-war-of-words-behind-happy-h...
      - Rerarom 5y ago
        I live in a 90% Christian country and everyone says "Happy Holidays" and it doesn't have anything to do with religious tolerance but rather with the fact that there are multiple Christian holidays around Christmas time.
    - XorNot 5y ago
      I like how at no point it's occurred to you that maybe people are just being polite or considerate towards the beliefs of others...or that a business might not want to stipulate a specific theological belief it's employees must put forward. That just can't be it for some reason, it's got to be a conspiracy against christianity! Talk about victimhood...
      - kodah 5y ago
        Depending on where you live in the US, this actually did happen. I'm one of the people who bought into that crap.
        havernator 5y ago
        White "Elder millennial" here, who grew up in red states with a Boomer dad who tried really hard not to drop the N-word in anger around me, but I still heard it a couple times. The "programming" worked on me great. I was all primed for this post-hate, post-racial society. I believed it. Legitimately. I was dedicated to judging people by the content of their character. Men, women. White, black. Whatever. IDK how it worked on everyone else but if fucking worked on me. It worked. My... I dunno, mid 20s? Were a shock as I discovered we weren't all on the same page. It's just gotten worse over time.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - ungrateful-dead 5y ago
        When a society built for Christians (or for “Christian ideals” which this country was founded upon) starts to acknowledge and accept others, the folks against these changes think everyone else is being too sensitive. When a society built with slaves and r*ping and pillaging indigenous populations starts to acknowledge that there’s issues that stemmed from that, the folks against these changes and dialogue think everyone else is being too sensitive. Is there a pattern here? There’s a lot of talk here about “victim mentality” here and how “everyone else is so sensitive, I figured it out!” It’s like the classic looking at bullet patterns on the planes that returned and not analyzing the planes that were taken down.
    - heymijo 5y ago
      Roger Ailes, the man who made Fox News, generated the controversy around this when it was a non-issue and drove it into the public spotlight. You can read the book The Loudest Voice in the Room or watch the mini-series based on it to learn more.
      - armenarmen 5y ago
        Cool, will do. Thanks for an actual answer
    - kodah 5y ago
      > Who were the people that put forward the “say happy holidays not merry Christmas” issue? I was one of these people for a time. Mainly because in certain places, like where I'm from, Christmas was pushed on people. I'm an atheist and those holidays are hard enough. I've been pressured into praying with people, whom when I would try to complain would effectively mock me. I was forced to go to church where a pastor (or priest) would talk about me by proxy, speaking about how terrible I am or how I was going to hell (yaaaaay brimstone and fire). That's just a couple examples, but I'm sure you can fill in the gaps. So, I got to be kind of a dick about it. I have grown since then, and Christians have generally gotten more tolerant that not everybody pauses for their holidays. This "conversation" could've been a lot healthier though.
    - lawtalkinghuman 5y ago
      Some corporations put up a mixture of Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays signage/messaging etc. Christian persecution complex hustlers—and Fox News etc. seeking outraged eyeballs—took the existence of people saying "Happy Holidays" as an attack on them because "Jesus is the reason for the season" and then unreasonably inferred that somehow people were banned from saying "Merry Christmas". This led to some very entitled people shouting "It's 'Merry Christmas' actually!" at some underpaid cashier in Walmart because they'd been led to believing that saying Happy Holidays was a form of religious persecution and an attack on their faith. For a British example, recall the story of "Winterval", where an attempt by a city council to come up with a brand name to cover a series of events including Diwali, Christmas, New Years and so on that was used in addition to "Christmas" led to a full out culture war where the press misrepresented the whole thing as somehow replacing Christmas due to "political correctness". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winterval https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winterval
refurb 5y ago
I took that as more social commentary than victimhood. Victimhood would infer some real harm. O’Reilly never said that, just that the situation was ridiculous.
- chillwaves 5y ago
  Ridiculous and completely non existent.

brigandish 5y ago

In what ways are boomers displaying victimhood? The article is quite specific and I wouldn’t recognise that group (though surely there will be individuals within that group) as displaying the kind of victimhood that suggests the high TIV mentioned.