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>, but the truth is that people aren't reading that comment accurately and there's a huge dose of hindsight fallacy here. I appreciate your defense of that com

by jasode 5y ago

>, but the truth is that people aren't reading that comment accurately and there's a huge dose of hindsight fallacy here. I appreciate your defense of that comment as it made me re-read it as charitably as possible. That said, I think you're still overlooking some of the reasons that cause the eyerolling of it that's separate from hindsight bias. First was the "quite trivially" phrase in the comment. That type of verbiage automatically triggers the perception of haughtiness. Imagine if someone did a Show HN of a new webcam security doorbell and a commenter said, ", you can already build such a system yourself _quite trivially_ by getting some components from DigiKey and soldering them yourself". Can you see how that sounds really dismissive? Second, it was overlooking the idea that the YC app(lication)s are not intended to create products for Linux power users like BrandonM who can string together curlftpfs with CVS/SVN. So for him to avoid that comment required stepping outside himself to see the perspective of non-techies. He could still dismiss Dropbox... but for different reasons related to not meeting needs of the end user mass market rather than purely base an opinion off his personal skillset.

dang 5y ago
I don't entirely disagree but even with all of that, it's not a great example of what pg used to call a middlebrow dismissal, especially when there are so many millions of worse examples. "Quite trivially" sounds terrible out of context, but (a) he scoped it to Linux users, (b) it's clear from the downstream reply that he was speaking from experience, and (c) he immediately agreed with Drew that even that solution had drawbacks and thanked him for the technical correction. That's the behavior of someone making good conversation, not someone being haughty. A haughty dismisser would have seized the opportunity to up the snark. > it was overlooking the idea that the YC app(lication)s are not intended to create products for Linux power users I don't think that's an accurate reading. His Linux point was only one of three, and the other two were about the mass market. Given that he had implemented the Linux solution himself, I think the fact that he led with that point was probably more out of geeky exuberance than overlooking non-technical users. It seems to me that in the context of 2007 all three of those points could easily have popped up in Dropbox's YC interview. Don't forget that back then, YC would sometimes fund a startup even though they didn't much believe in the idea (Airbnb famously so), because of the personal impression made by the founders. That's still the case today, and it was the case back then as well :)
- jasode 5y ago
  > That's the behavior of _someone_ making good conversation, not someone being haughty. I meant to focus on the text's tone sounding haughty rather than accuse the person being haughty. Let me try to explain another way to emphasize the text aspect: that particular sentence in isolation is what is quoted on the internet outside of HN: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22you+can+already+build+such+a+system+yourself+quite+trivially%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22you+can+already+build+suc... https://www.bing.com/search?q=%22you+can+already+build+such+a+system+yourself+quite+trivially%22 https://www.bing.com/search?q=%22you+can+already+build+such+... The "quite trivially" may only be scoped to one bullet point and may be unfairly weighted when looking at his followup thoughtful conversation -- but it also elevated it legendary HN lore.
  - dang 5y ago
    Ok, but if you read the text as a whole, it's not true that it's haughty. That it sounds haughty when quoted selectively is the internet's fault, not the commenter's. At most he can be accused of (a) not pre-emptively bulletproofing his text against selective quotation, and (b) not knowing the future. And (a) reduces to (b). I take your point about lore, and on that level it's just good fun. p.s. Also, nice use of the word 'haughty'. We need those good English words.
    - BrandonM 5y ago
      Hello. I’m honestly loving this conversation. Thanks for engaging seriously about it. It also means a lot, dang, that you took the time to both understand my points and also to counter the narrative, all these years after I commented. As much as I appreciate your thoughtfulness, I really don’t mind the commentary. I’m long past being frustrated about being misinterpreted, and I learned a lot from it, anyway. As I’ve stated since[1], I was an undergrad when I made those comments. I know how much I’ve grown since then. It feels like someone else said them, and everyone is talking about “not me” when they remark about it today. I definitely appreciate the love, though. Thanks! [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16661824 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16661824

by jasode 5y ago

dang 5y ago

I don't entirely disagree but even with all of that, it's not a great example of what pg used to call a middlebrow dismissal, especially when there are so many millions of worse examples. "Quite trivially" sounds terrible out of context, but (a) he scoped it to Linux users, (b) it's clear from the downstream reply that he was speaking from experience, and (c) he immediately agreed with Drew that even that solution had drawbacks and thanked him for the technical correction. That's the behavior of someone making good conversation, not someone being haughty. A haughty dismisser would have seized the opportunity to up the snark. > it was overlooking the idea that the YC app(lication)s are not intended to create products for Linux power users I don't think that's an accurate reading. His Linux point was only one of three, and the other two were about the mass market. Given that he had implemented the Linux solution himself, I think the fact that he led with that point was probably more out of geeky exuberance than overlooking non-technical users. It seems to me that in the context of 2007 all three of those points could easily have popped up in Dropbox's YC interview. Don't forget that back then, YC would sometimes fund a startup even though they didn't much believe in the idea (Airbnb famously so), because of the personal impression made by the founders. That's still the case today, and it was the case back then as well :)

jasode 5y ago
> That's the behavior of _someone_ making good conversation, not someone being haughty. I meant to focus on the text's tone sounding haughty rather than accuse the person being haughty. Let me try to explain another way to emphasize the text aspect: that particular sentence in isolation is what is quoted on the internet outside of HN: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22you+can+already+build+such+a+system+yourself+quite+trivially%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22you+can+already+build+suc... https://www.bing.com/search?q=%22you+can+already+build+such+a+system+yourself+quite+trivially%22 https://www.bing.com/search?q=%22you+can+already+build+such+... The "quite trivially" may only be scoped to one bullet point and may be unfairly weighted when looking at his followup thoughtful conversation -- but it also elevated it legendary HN lore.
- dang 5y ago
  Ok, but if you read the text as a whole, it's not true that it's haughty. That it sounds haughty when quoted selectively is the internet's fault, not the commenter's. At most he can be accused of (a) not pre-emptively bulletproofing his text against selective quotation, and (b) not knowing the future. And (a) reduces to (b). I take your point about lore, and on that level it's just good fun. p.s. Also, nice use of the word 'haughty'. We need those good English words.
  - BrandonM 5y ago
    Hello. I’m honestly loving this conversation. Thanks for engaging seriously about it. It also means a lot, dang, that you took the time to both understand my points and also to counter the narrative, all these years after I commented. As much as I appreciate your thoughtfulness, I really don’t mind the commentary. I’m long past being frustrated about being misinterpreted, and I learned a lot from it, anyway. As I’ve stated since[1], I was an undergrad when I made those comments. I know how much I’ve grown since then. It feels like someone else said them, and everyone is talking about “not me” when they remark about it today. I definitely appreciate the love, though. Thanks! [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16661824 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16661824