3 ms·

So, every time a few drunk people decide that they want government out and get in a brawl with the police qualifies as a coup attempt?

klmadfejno 6y ago
If patheticness is an important qualifier, I think breaching the capitol building suffices.
- Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
  The real patheticness here is the desire to call a riot with a more politically charged term "coup attempt", just because it pleases you to further vilify your political opponents. I watched the whole thing live. It was messy at times, but it was clear as day that the mob didn't have neither a plan nor a command structure. Once they got into the chamber, they just chatted with guards! Or, in that shaman's case, just blessed everyone around.
Spooky23 6y ago
When they bring the gallows, improvised weapons, gear to take hostages to a Capitol, yes.
- ErikVandeWater 6y ago
  They didn't bring any guns. How can you seriously believe they tried to take over the government by force in the most heavily armed country in the world, and not bring any guns?
  - Spooky23 6y ago
    Pretty easily. Guns are tools, the power of which gun people overestimate. You had the mob of useful idiots (ie the red capped mob of idiots) expressing their support of the police by beating them, and the more serious people penetrating into the chambers and offices. Sidearms aren’t as useful as they seem in mob situations. What are the police going to do? Line up Kent State style and just mow the crowd down? You suppress mobs with physical force. Lots of cops, divide up the mob and gas/beat them to disperse. The administration made that impossible by refusing aid. The New Jersey State police responded before the federal authorities. The goal wasn’t “taking over the government”. It was a coup, using the stopping of a formality from happening and providing the fig leaf needed for the other guy to hang on to power. Taking a few congressmen hostage, using them as shield, and marching them to the gallows would have stopped that.
  - ineedasername 6y ago
    The coup attempt was not in the form of the mob themselves taking control. It was the mob trying to disrupt the process of transferring power sufficiently enough to enable or inspire other mechanisms of action. There were, for example, calls for President Trump to declare martial law. It doesn't matter that their plan was vague, poorly coordinated, or unlikely to succeed. They intended to disrupt the transfer of power and executed their intentions violently, injuring over 100 police officers in the attempt. As any number of idiotic criminals in jail can attest to, incompetence in crime does not negate the criminal act. It also doesn't take nearly as much effort by a mob to accomplish its goals when the people who would help stop it stand idly by: 1) Not enough security was provided in first place 2) Reinforcements took hours to mobilize 3) The President refused to take any action to defuse the situation.
anigbrowl 6y ago
You seem like a smart person, why make such obviously fallacious arguments? The HN guidelines ask that you respond to the strongest interpretation of what someone is saying, within reason.
- jonas21 6y ago
  How is that fallacious? It's a direct response to the argument put forth in the comment he's replying to: > Ability to succeed doesn't really factor into what was attempted. That is in the mind & intentions of those who were involved & instigated it.
  - ineedasername 6y ago
    Because the intent of the crowd was not to attack police, that was a byproduct. The intent was to disrupt the process whereby power is transferred from one leader to the other. The fallacy therefore is one of false equivalency.
ineedasername 6y ago
No, I don't think that would be a coup attempt. I also don't see how that bears any resemblance to the events that actually took place on 1/6 when people built a scaffold & tried hunting down VP Pence to hang him on it.
- Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
  If you seriously believe that heated protesters really planned to hang VP Pence, you should also believe that when BLM protesters chanted "kill a cop, save a life", they were really planning to murder all police officers in the vicinity.

klmadfejno 6y ago

If patheticness is an important qualifier, I think breaching the capitol building suffices.

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
The real patheticness here is the desire to call a riot with a more politically charged term "coup attempt", just because it pleases you to further vilify your political opponents. I watched the whole thing live. It was messy at times, but it was clear as day that the mob didn't have neither a plan nor a command structure. Once they got into the chamber, they just chatted with guards! Or, in that shaman's case, just blessed everyone around.

Spooky23 6y ago

When they bring the gallows, improvised weapons, gear to take hostages to a Capitol, yes.

ErikVandeWater 6y ago
They didn't bring any guns. How can you seriously believe they tried to take over the government by force in the most heavily armed country in the world, and not bring any guns?
- Spooky23 6y ago
  Pretty easily. Guns are tools, the power of which gun people overestimate. You had the mob of useful idiots (ie the red capped mob of idiots) expressing their support of the police by beating them, and the more serious people penetrating into the chambers and offices. Sidearms aren’t as useful as they seem in mob situations. What are the police going to do? Line up Kent State style and just mow the crowd down? You suppress mobs with physical force. Lots of cops, divide up the mob and gas/beat them to disperse. The administration made that impossible by refusing aid. The New Jersey State police responded before the federal authorities. The goal wasn’t “taking over the government”. It was a coup, using the stopping of a formality from happening and providing the fig leaf needed for the other guy to hang on to power. Taking a few congressmen hostage, using them as shield, and marching them to the gallows would have stopped that.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  The coup attempt was not in the form of the mob themselves taking control. It was the mob trying to disrupt the process of transferring power sufficiently enough to enable or inspire other mechanisms of action. There were, for example, calls for President Trump to declare martial law. It doesn't matter that their plan was vague, poorly coordinated, or unlikely to succeed. They intended to disrupt the transfer of power and executed their intentions violently, injuring over 100 police officers in the attempt. As any number of idiotic criminals in jail can attest to, incompetence in crime does not negate the criminal act. It also doesn't take nearly as much effort by a mob to accomplish its goals when the people who would help stop it stand idly by: 1) Not enough security was provided in first place 2) Reinforcements took hours to mobilize 3) The President refused to take any action to defuse the situation.

anigbrowl 6y ago

You seem like a smart person, why make such obviously fallacious arguments? The HN guidelines ask that you respond to the strongest interpretation of what someone is saying, within reason.

jonas21 6y ago
How is that fallacious? It's a direct response to the argument put forth in the comment he's replying to: > Ability to succeed doesn't really factor into what was attempted. That is in the mind & intentions of those who were involved & instigated it.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  Because the intent of the crowd was not to attack police, that was a byproduct. The intent was to disrupt the process whereby power is transferred from one leader to the other. The fallacy therefore is one of false equivalency.

ineedasername 6y ago

No, I don't think that would be a coup attempt. I also don't see how that bears any resemblance to the events that actually took place on 1/6 when people built a scaffold & tried hunting down VP Pence to hang him on it.

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
If you seriously believe that heated protesters really planned to hang VP Pence, you should also believe that when BLM protesters chanted "kill a cop, save a life", they were really planning to murder all police officers in the vicinity.