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The President of the United States supported it. There's evidence that the National Guard specifically wasn't deployed in order to increase the danger to the le

The President of the United States supported it. There's evidence that the National Guard specifically wasn't deployed in order to increase the danger to the legislature.

gabereiser 5y ago
Rep(R) from Ohio let them in... It was a loosely coordinated effort. Either by sympathy or by design. The individuals involved are being found. The real perpetrators are completely let off the hook. It’s just a game of chess and a King’s Castle move didn’t work this time.
- Pokepokalypse 5y ago
  loosely coordinated --> plausible deniability
shkkmo 5y ago
Let's say that the rioters had successfully taken congress hostage. A lot more people might have gotten hurt, but we still wouldn't have been close to a successful coup because there simply was no where near enough support for any coup in the military or court system for it to possibly succeed. It was a signifant event and one that is well worth being strongly concerned about. That does not justify spreading hyperbolic FUD. In my view the seriousness of this event makes it more important that we bring our full rationality to bear when discissing it and try our best to avoid obfuscating the problems it revealed with the usual partisan games of BS and distortion.
- JoeAltmaier 5y ago
  Its hard to mischaracterize an attempt to overthrow the government. Whether it was efficiently executed is irrelevant - it was treasonable activity.
  - shkkmo 5y ago
    The degree to which our institutions worked and did not work in preventing the overthrow of the government is absolutely relevant. If you misrepresent how close something came to success, you dramatically reduce your abilty to learn from the event.
    - gabereiser 5y ago
      I think people are focusing on the outcome rather than the crime. It's irrelevant whether they were successful, it goes into criminality when a criminal act is actually acted upon, not whether it was successful. It's not illegal to sell hammers, but when you pull out that hammer to hit someone over the head with it, it becomes a crime. Whether or not you actually connected with that other party's head doesn't make the attempt any less criminal.
      - shkkmo 5y ago
        How is that relevant to what I said? I have made no arguments or statements one way or the other about the criminality. I am trying to call out factually incorrect fear mongering about how close the US government ce to being overthrown.
- ihumanable 5y ago
  If they could have killed and captured enough Democrats that the Republicans could have won the floor vote to not certify the election results, we would be in wildly uncharted territory. You'd have a Congress and President both declaring that a free and fair election was a "Steal" and they would have the votes, the military, and the levers of power. The people rioting weren't going to overthrow the country and take over, they were a useful tool for trump to overthrow the election and install himself as President for 4 more years.

The President of the United States supported it. There's evidence that the National Guard specifically wasn't deployed in order to increase the danger to the legislature.

gabereiser 5y ago

Rep(R) from Ohio let them in... It was a loosely coordinated effort. Either by sympathy or by design. The individuals involved are being found. The real perpetrators are completely let off the hook. It’s just a game of chess and a King’s Castle move didn’t work this time.

Pokepokalypse 5y ago
loosely coordinated --> plausible deniability

shkkmo 5y ago

Let's say that the rioters had successfully taken congress hostage. A lot more people might have gotten hurt, but we still wouldn't have been close to a successful coup because there simply was no where near enough support for any coup in the military or court system for it to possibly succeed. It was a signifant event and one that is well worth being strongly concerned about. That does not justify spreading hyperbolic FUD. In my view the seriousness of this event makes it more important that we bring our full rationality to bear when discissing it and try our best to avoid obfuscating the problems it revealed with the usual partisan games of BS and distortion.

JoeAltmaier 5y ago
Its hard to mischaracterize an attempt to overthrow the government. Whether it was efficiently executed is irrelevant - it was treasonable activity.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  The degree to which our institutions worked and did not work in preventing the overthrow of the government is absolutely relevant. If you misrepresent how close something came to success, you dramatically reduce your abilty to learn from the event.
  - gabereiser 5y ago
    I think people are focusing on the outcome rather than the crime. It's irrelevant whether they were successful, it goes into criminality when a criminal act is actually acted upon, not whether it was successful. It's not illegal to sell hammers, but when you pull out that hammer to hit someone over the head with it, it becomes a crime. Whether or not you actually connected with that other party's head doesn't make the attempt any less criminal.
    - shkkmo 5y ago
      How is that relevant to what I said? I have made no arguments or statements one way or the other about the criminality. I am trying to call out factually incorrect fear mongering about how close the US government ce to being overthrown.
ihumanable 5y ago
If they could have killed and captured enough Democrats that the Republicans could have won the floor vote to not certify the election results, we would be in wildly uncharted territory. You'd have a Congress and President both declaring that a free and fair election was a "Steal" and they would have the votes, the military, and the levers of power. The people rioting weren't going to overthrow the country and take over, they were a useful tool for trump to overthrow the election and install himself as President for 4 more years.