4 ms·

The collapse of the Soviet Union was a disaster in itself. People had their savings wiped out, lost their jobs, and had to barter beg and steal just to feed the

The collapse of the Soviet Union was a disaster in itself. People had their savings wiped out, lost their jobs, and had to barter beg and steal just to feed themselves. Organized criminals bought up the state's assets for pennies on the dollar and set themselves up as oligarchs. Several former soviet allies turned into dictatorships or failed states.

orlovs 5y ago
Sorry, but what savings? I come from Baltics. Born late years of Empire. Most of SU people lived on the edge powerty. Ofc if you were in party or releated to defense then you had very good or decent living standards. But for my family where all of 4 grandparents were from kulaks almost zero chanche to get out from specific kasta.
odiroot 5y ago
> The collapse of the Soviet Union was a disaster in itself. A very positive "disaster" for multiple countries that were occupied by Russia since the end of the war. We regained our freedom and started to catch up to the NATO countries. The nearly 50 year under Moscow's boot was a much bigger disaster and, although I was born in a communist state, I'm glad I could grow up in a now free and democratic country.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Thanks for your perspective. It's always good to remind people of the realities of life under communism, given its resurging popularity amongst some young people who have no living memory of it.
  - nickpp 5y ago
    That returning popularity is no accident: when it collapsed, its propaganda machine mutated and adapted to the west. Now it has a new master rising on the ashes of the old empire and it started its work.
    - tarsinge 5y ago
      For sure, nothing to do with the rising inequalities, the economic perspective of the younger generations, and of course the whole climate and resources consumption issues the last decades have brought that maybe make some people question if we are on the right trajectory.
      - seryoiupfurds 5y ago
        The Tsar was bad too. Cold comfort to the millions who were massacred after the revolution.
      - nickpp 5y ago
        Oh, sure, good old Soviet Union was the master of equality. Everyone was equally hungry and equally oppressed. Everyone, of course, except them: the politically connected, the unelected ruling class. They and their good friends, the secret police. But the propaganda machine LOVED telling us how much better we had it in such an equalitarian society and what a nightmare was to live in the decadent West where the rich took advantage of the poor. We were literally waiting for capitalism to fall... while queueing in line for the allotted bread, flour and sugar rations. They were the masters of ecology as well. Just read up what happened to the Aral Sea and, you know, the subject at hand, Chernobyl.
        tarsinge 5y ago
        Of course I was not defending Soviet Union but commenting on the returning popularity of "communism", and by that I was thinking of Marx ideas, notably regarding the economy[0]. I'm not sure there is really a returning popularity for Stalinism. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto
        nickpp 5y ago
        Marxism, communism, Stalinism - they are one and the same cancer: the inhuman system under which people's rights are forcefully confiscated and replaced with the all powerful State that knows better what you need. For your own good and the betterment of all mankind. The people praising such a system it are either the purely evil overlords-to-be or their "useful idiots" losers blinded by desire of a of personal gain they are utterly unable to obtain in a meritocratic, free-market, capitalist system.
skeletal88 5y ago
No, the creation of the Soviet Union was a disaster of unimaginable scale. It simply had to end at some time, because it was corrupt and the economy inefficient in every way and morally bankrupt. The forced annexation of other countries and deportations of nations inside the SU were horrible crimes. Do you suggest that the soviet union should not have collapsed?
- formerly_proven 5y ago
  > Do you suggest that the soviet union should not have collapsed? Perhaps it could have collapsed in a better way?
  - nickpp 5y ago
    It killed much fewer people collapsing than it killed when existing. So it collapsed in a pretty good way, considering the alternatives.
    - meepmorp 5y ago
      I think there were ways for the Soviet Union to have gone away that didn’t involve Russia (and to varying extents, the other states) becoming the kleptocracy it is now.
      - nickpp 5y ago
        I also think there were ways it could have gone away while killing millions. And I am not exaggerating: while living through the collapse our parents kissed us kids goodbye and sent us to the country side. They fully expected the communist apparatchiks to shoot protesters point blank in the streets. And it some cases, they did. Let’s just be glad it went away and pray it never returns: it was one of the greatest horrors this Earth has ever seen.
        baybal2 5y ago
        > Let’s just be glad it went away and pray it never returns This optimism is very premature. CPSU has morphed into Russian mafia, and the current Russian Kleptostate, and ChiComs... well just turn on the news any day.

orlovs 5y ago

Sorry, but what savings? I come from Baltics. Born late years of Empire. Most of SU people lived on the edge powerty. Ofc if you were in party or releated to defense then you had very good or decent living standards. But for my family where all of 4 grandparents were from kulaks almost zero chanche to get out from specific kasta.

odiroot 5y ago

> The collapse of the Soviet Union was a disaster in itself. A very positive "disaster" for multiple countries that were occupied by Russia since the end of the war. We regained our freedom and started to catch up to the NATO countries. The nearly 50 year under Moscow's boot was a much bigger disaster and, although I was born in a communist state, I'm glad I could grow up in a now free and democratic country.

throwawayboise 5y ago
Thanks for your perspective. It's always good to remind people of the realities of life under communism, given its resurging popularity amongst some young people who have no living memory of it.
- nickpp 5y ago
  That returning popularity is no accident: when it collapsed, its propaganda machine mutated and adapted to the west. Now it has a new master rising on the ashes of the old empire and it started its work.
  - tarsinge 5y ago
    For sure, nothing to do with the rising inequalities, the economic perspective of the younger generations, and of course the whole climate and resources consumption issues the last decades have brought that maybe make some people question if we are on the right trajectory.
    - seryoiupfurds 5y ago
      The Tsar was bad too. Cold comfort to the millions who were massacred after the revolution.
    - nickpp 5y ago
      Oh, sure, good old Soviet Union was the master of equality. Everyone was equally hungry and equally oppressed. Everyone, of course, except them: the politically connected, the unelected ruling class. They and their good friends, the secret police. But the propaganda machine LOVED telling us how much better we had it in such an equalitarian society and what a nightmare was to live in the decadent West where the rich took advantage of the poor. We were literally waiting for capitalism to fall... while queueing in line for the allotted bread, flour and sugar rations. They were the masters of ecology as well. Just read up what happened to the Aral Sea and, you know, the subject at hand, Chernobyl.
      - tarsinge 5y ago
        Of course I was not defending Soviet Union but commenting on the returning popularity of "communism", and by that I was thinking of Marx ideas, notably regarding the economy[0]. I'm not sure there is really a returning popularity for Stalinism. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto
        nickpp 5y ago
        Marxism, communism, Stalinism - they are one and the same cancer: the inhuman system under which people's rights are forcefully confiscated and replaced with the all powerful State that knows better what you need. For your own good and the betterment of all mankind. The people praising such a system it are either the purely evil overlords-to-be or their "useful idiots" losers blinded by desire of a of personal gain they are utterly unable to obtain in a meritocratic, free-market, capitalist system.

skeletal88 5y ago

No, the creation of the Soviet Union was a disaster of unimaginable scale. It simply had to end at some time, because it was corrupt and the economy inefficient in every way and morally bankrupt. The forced annexation of other countries and deportations of nations inside the SU were horrible crimes. Do you suggest that the soviet union should not have collapsed?

formerly_proven 5y ago
> Do you suggest that the soviet union should not have collapsed? Perhaps it could have collapsed in a better way?
- nickpp 5y ago
  It killed much fewer people collapsing than it killed when existing. So it collapsed in a pretty good way, considering the alternatives.
  - meepmorp 5y ago
    I think there were ways for the Soviet Union to have gone away that didn’t involve Russia (and to varying extents, the other states) becoming the kleptocracy it is now.
    - nickpp 5y ago
      I also think there were ways it could have gone away while killing millions. And I am not exaggerating: while living through the collapse our parents kissed us kids goodbye and sent us to the country side. They fully expected the communist apparatchiks to shoot protesters point blank in the streets. And it some cases, they did. Let’s just be glad it went away and pray it never returns: it was one of the greatest horrors this Earth has ever seen.
      - baybal2 5y ago
        > Let’s just be glad it went away and pray it never returns This optimism is very premature. CPSU has morphed into Russian mafia, and the current Russian Kleptostate, and ChiComs... well just turn on the news any day.